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He does provide indisputable proof. You pray to Him with an open broken heart and contrite spirit and He reveals Himself to you, IN you. And THAT, no man can take away with their theories, doctrines, or heresies. Peace
He does provide indisputable proof. You pray to Him with an open broken heart and contrite spirit and He reveals Himself to you, IN you. And THAT, no man can take away with their theories, doctrines, or heresies. Peace
I'm not talking about theories, doctrines, or heresies. I'm talking about scholar-verified secular documents dating from the time of Jesus. Personally, I'd rather have the documents so I know the person I'm praying to really lived or at least was really divine. Otherwise I'm no better off than praying to Zeus or Osiris. The heart can be easily fooled by deep emotions that trick a person into believing they are in communion with Jesus. Many ex-Christians say that when they prayed and thought the Holy Spirit was within them they only came to realize later that it was their deep feelings, not any sort of connection with Christ. Maybe you'll learn that later, maybe you won't. But the truth is millions of people walk away from Christianity after having these deep religious experiences because they woke up to the fact it was an emotional high, not a spiritual one.
All I'm capable of believing right now is that if God really wanted us to believe in Jesus and that he resurrected from the dead God would have left indisputable proof in the form of the original gospels preserved in the Qumran caves and a dozen contemporary secular historians like Philo of Alexandria writing about Jesus' exploits and crucifixion. Certainly at the least a few contemporary testimonies about the dead saints of Matthew rising and appearing to inhabitants of Jerusalem. To those who say, "Isn't that asking too much" I ask, "Is anything too difficult for our God?"
1- You are fully capable of believing - you simply choose not to.
2- God did what He did. His plan is perfect in that it accomplished what He wanted. What you ask is no different than the Jews who wanted a sign in order to believe. What was Jesus' answer?
Matthew 12:39-40 - But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; 40 for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
1- You are fully capable of believing - you simply choose not to.
2- God did what He did. His plan is perfect in that it accomplished what He wanted. What you ask is no different than the Jews who wanted a sign in order to believe. What was Jesus' answer?
Matthew 12:39-40 - But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; 40 for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Don't forget, Rob Jesus gave thousands of signs as per John "I suppose all the world couldn't contain all the books that could be written about the miracles Jesus performed" Jesus certainly had no problem giving people all the signs they wanted, except for this one occasion when the Pharisees came demanding one from him. Then he clams up. Makes no sense to me, I'm sorry. It's like a father who does lots of nice things for his kids if they thank him, but the moment they don't thank him he stops giving them gifts. There isn't a logical pattern to that or to Jesus' method of interacting with people.
I could pretend to believe but it wouldn't be real because I just haven't seen enough evidence to make me think I'm praying to a real person. It's like me saying, "Rob, why don't you practice wizardry?" You say, "Because it's not real." I say, "How can you say that? There are seven books about a wizard and the "miracles" he performed that prove beyond doubt wizardry is as real as you and I"
If God's plan is perfect and things turned out exactly the way He wanted them to and then we have 15 people with 15 different interpretations of Revelations, then I certainly don't have a clue what definition of "perfect" we are using here.
Awww, Mike, you're a party-pooper. As usual you're two steps ahead of me.
But the real question is: why can't any of the questions be answered correctly if the gospels harmonize perfectly?
If they ask who carried the cross, Jesus or Simon, the correct answer is BOTH, but the 'quiz' does not offer that answer, it only offers Jesus or Simon, and it will say you are incorrect either way.
Don't forget, Rob Jesus gave thousands of signs as per John "I suppose all the world couldn't contain all the books that could be written about the miracles Jesus performed" Jesus certainly had no problem giving people all the signs they wanted, except for this one occasion when the Pharisees came demanding one from him. Then he clams up. Makes no sense to me, I'm sorry. It's like a father who does lots of nice things for his kids if they thank him, but the moment they don't thank him he stops giving them gifts. There isn't a logical pattern to that or to Jesus' method of interacting with people.
I could pretend to believe but it wouldn't be real because I just haven't seen enough evidence to make me think I'm praying to a real person. It's like me saying, "Rob, why don't you practice wizardry?" You say, "Because it's not real." I say, "How can you say that? There are seven books about a wizard and the "miracles" he performed that prove beyond doubt wizardry is as real as you and I"
If God's plan is perfect and things turned out exactly the way He wanted them to and then we have 15 people with 15 different interpretations of Revelations, then I certainly don't have a clue what definition of "perfect" we are using here.
I will leave that between you and God to decide who will set the terms on what to believe. God has already established what He wants... you seem to want to negotiate the terms. It doesn't work that way, but you are free to try.
I will leave that between you and God to decide who will set the terms on what to believe. God has already established what He wants... you seem to want to negotiate the terms. It doesn't work that way, but you are free to try.
So here's where we are:
You leave it to me to decide. Muslims leave it to you to decide (if you're not in their country and they don't happen to have a saber handy). Hindus leave it to Muslims to decide. Everybody leaves it to everybody else to decide because all we're arguing here is beliefs and opinions which cannot be corroborated with evidence.
If God is fair He's not going to judge anybody for not believing in Him because He left us nothing objective to use to enable us to believe in Him. Anything you or I or the Muslims or the Hindus believe in is purely subjective.
That leaves the entire matter a complete wash.
Is that a fair summation of the issue?
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