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Thankyou.
Yes we shoul always remember the groundin of truth, especially in exigesis through pardes.
But remember hannibal, rbbi, and I are congruently following and sharing our hearts through a guarded language with a resolve of measure. If you need a direct scriptural reference I'll do my best to refference what Hannibal is speaking of in spiritual frames.
As for the moment I believe he is delving into Ezekiel. While I am focused on Isaiah. i will add furthur later with concern of Ephraim.
Which by means of the Son the Fathers Will is done on earth as in heaven.
Blessings
However much I love true spiritual depth and insight, I don't think exegesis is done through pardes (I just read up on it a little), which to me seems a form of Jewish mysticism. And I don't think the spiritual frames Hannibal is speaking in has much to do with the actual meaning of Scripture. There might be some truth in there, but without understanding.
You see the mystical/overspiritual approach is often trying to dig into deeper dimensions of human existence, of personal awareness etc. It tries to pry into those things that God has kept hidden, (like kabballah does) yet never comes to a true understanding of the truth because there is no humility before God, and it's not being done through the Holy Spirit.
Hannibal denies the very existence of the Holy Spirit in believers this day and age, and I think if you and Rbb1 are friends with Hannibal and you do know the Lord and the power of His Spirit.. shouldn't you warn him about the path he is walking on?
The point is that if you want true Spiritual growth and insight, the way to get there is not by deep insights in the "spiritual inner man" or finding comparisons between the tribes of Israel and the New Testament.
It is by humility, by acknowledging we are nothing and Jesus Christ is everything. By comprehending how big the love and grace of God really is, how we could never be and never can be redeemed by keeping the Law (look at how well Israel did under the Law of Moses), but how Jesus Christ took the punishment for our sin upon Himself so we could be completely free by faith, eternally delivered from the righteous judgment of God over our sin.. how amazing is that? How small does that make us, and how exalted does it make Christ? Then all mystical "deep" insights just pale as unimportant before the simple and yet eternal message of the Gospel that people need to hear. There is forgiveness of sin by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. He never told the disciples to go out and tell parables (let alone mystical stuff), and when He did it Himself it was as a judgment. No He told His disciples to proclaim from the roof what they had heard in their ears, to go and preach the Gospel to all creatures.
We need to be spreading a clear Light that people can rationally understand, because they need the simplemessage of the free grace of God in Jesus Christ just as much as we once did.. and what we freely have received, we should freely give away right?
However much I love true spiritual depth and insight, I don't think exegesis is done through pardes (I just read up on it a little), which to me seems a form of Jewish mysticism. And I don't think the spiritual frames Hannibal is speaking in has much to do with the actual meaning of Scripture. There might be some truth in there, but without understanding.
You see the mystical/overspiritual approach is often trying to dig into deeper dimensions of human existence, of personal awareness etc. It tries to pry into those things that God has kept hidden, (like kabballah does) yet never comes to a true understanding of the truth because there is no humility before God, and it's not being done through the Holy Spirit.
Hannibal denies the very existence of the Holy Spirit in believers this day and age, and I think if you and Rbb1 are friends with Hannibal and you do know the Lord and the power of His Spirit.. shouldn't you warn him about the path he is walking on?
The point is that if you want true Spiritual growth and insight, the way to get there is not by deep insights in the "spiritual inner man" or finding comparisons between the tribes of Israel and the New Testament.
It is by humility, by acknowledging we are nothing and Jesus Christ is everything. By comprehending how big the love and grace of God really is, how we could never be and never can be redeemed by keeping the Law (look at how well Israel did under the Law of Moses), but how Jesus Christ took the punishment for our sin upon Himself so we could be completely free by faith, eternally delivered from the righteous judgment of God over our sin.. how amazing is that? How small does that make us, and how exalted does it make Christ? Then all mystical "deep" insights just pale as unimportant before the simple and yet eternal message of the Gospel that people need to hear. There is forgiveness of sin by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. He never told the disciples to go out and tell parables (let alone mystical stuff), and when He did it Himself it was as a judgment. No He told His disciples to proclaim from the roof what they had heard in their ears, to go and preach the Gospel to all creatures.
We need to be spreading a clear Light that people can rationally understand, because they need the simplemessage of the free grace of God in Jesus Christ just as much as we once did.. and what we freely have received, we should freely give away right?
Well, I have to disagree with you on PARDES, because the SPIRIT had me studying exactly that way from day one and I had no one telling me what to, or how to study, because I shut them all out wanting the Spirit of the Lord to make good on His promise of being our teacher, because I had NO IDEA, who had the truth and who didn't.
What about Him being the Rock that water came forth out of? What about Passover being fulfilled spiritually in you? I know you don't believe in Pentecost being fulfilled spiritually in you, because you listened to men who haven't experienced it, and their twisting of the word to disannul it, according to your own testimony regarding your investigation of it.
While I respect your stand on what you DO believe in, there's a whole lot there you are missing. The patterns are there for confirmation, and we are supposed to study them. Thus it says it's the glory of kings to search out a matter, and He has hidden things for us to find with diligent searching.
The Word is like the heavens and the earth. All sorts of valuable things are found in it. Gold, diamonds, rubies, emeralds, oil, pearls and colors in the shellfish of it, linen and grains for bread from the plant kingdom, blood and coverings from the animal kingdom, fish from the sea. All of these things I've mentioned and more, have spiritual meanings and you wouldn't deny them, would you? So why deny the meanings hidden even deeper in the Word? Are they any less valuable do you think, or even more so, given the extraordinary lengths He went to, to hide them?
The simple truth is, He has prepared a banquet for us. Not everyone is going to prefer to stay on the same foods forever, neither should they, as we are to grow from glory (terrestrial or naturally minded) to glory (celestial or spiritually minded). We all start with the former, and as we are obedient in the things revealed, He keeps on revealing (as we keep on applying that wisdom gleaned). This is how we are changed, as we behold Him in His Word with the light/wine of the Spirit, partaking of true communion with Him. Those that hunger (the bread) and thirst (the wine), shall be filled.
Bon Appetit, everyone.....Peace
PS. Hannibal are friends now, and as friends, we have friendly exchanges both on where we agree, and where we differ, behind the scenes. And as I just told him today, should He quicken something to me that would cause me to see everything we currently disagree on, "his" way, then I have no problem with that at all.
The key is, HE has to quicken it to me, or like anything else, up to that point, it's just an opinion to me, EVEN IF IT'S CORRECT, because we cannot by taking thought add one cubit to our stature, the stature of Christ within.
Thus it's possible to know with your carnal mind something is TRUTH, and it STILL not profit you, because unless the Spirit of the Lord builds the house, they labor in vain.
The parable of the prodigal son is a sermon that is taught by every preacher and any Athiest can show a son running off from God and coming back.
The parable is about the literal history of God's two sons named,'' Ephraim and Judah.''
The kingdom of Ephraim is known as the prodigal nation and they did EXACTLY what the prodigal does in that story. They call the Torah a strange thing while out herding swine and this is a reference to depict great disrespect of Torah.
Jesus came calling those lost gentiles of Ephraim out of the land of darkness where they had been oppressed amongst the nations for 700 years before he came and then Jesus calls them specifically because the covenant is only for Ephraim and Judah but Jesus could not bring a new covenant until he filled the ranks of Ephraim and made them one with Judah.
That is the second meaning and the second meaning always comes from the logic of literal history between God's two sons.
There is also a third meaning and this is that I am the son who stayed home and I am the prodigal.
Jesus came and took two people to make them one single man and this is Ephraim and Judah becoming one under one shepherd.
So it was then said,'' There is therefore no difference between Jew and gentile, there is no difference between male and female, there is no difference between slave and free man.''
The reason this is, is because we are all slaves in the body of death, slaves to Christ when one chooses, and within us is also a free man and so there is no slave or free man because we are both.
There is no female or male because we are both.
There is no more Jew and Gentile because the gentile represents the outer man and there is a hidden Jew of the heart. Paul speaks of this hidden man.
Knowing that the parable is of the literal history of Judah and Ephraim, one must also conclude that the two are one and you are the son who stayed home and the prodigal that left and came back.
Should I go into this further?
You're reading way more into that than what Jesus meant.
You're reading way more into that than what Jesus meant.
If a person wants to understand parables, there isn't another way.
I don't know the exact meaning to everyone yet, but I do know a few very well.
Those ten virgins who need an extra vessel in order to buy oil are told where to buy oil and they go out to buy but when they come returning the door is already shut.
What is that oil you can buy Vizio?
We know for sure that you can't buy the Holy spirit don't we?
So what is it?
The point is, if you want to understand what is being said, you have to read much into it, especially the literal history of Ephraim and Judah.
Revelation looks like the writings of a madman but it is not the ravings of a madman who knows the fall Holy days and what they teach.
We have to take a lamb and show Jesus, a red heifer, a sukkot bull, goats of Yom Kippur, rams of Shavuot, doves, and so on and with each one we have to read things in it to get to Jesus at all.
If a person wants to understand parables, there isn't another way.
I don't know the exact meaning to everyone yet, but I do know a few very well.
Those ten virgins who need an extra vessel in order to buy oil are told where to buy oil and they go out to buy but when they come returning the door is already shut.
What is that oil you can buy Vizio?
We know for sure that you can't buy the Holy spirit don't we?
So what is it?
The point is, if you want to understand what is being said, you have to read much into it, especially the literal history of Ephraim and Judah.
Revelation looks like the writings of a madman but it is not the ravings of a madman who knows the fall Holy days and what they teach.
We have to take a lamb and show Jesus, a red heifer, a sukkot bull, goats of Yom Kippur, rams of Shavuot, doves, and so on and with each one we have to read things in it to get to Jesus at all.
If a person wants to understand parables, there isn't another way.
Jesus often explained them. I'll go with what he said.
Quote:
I don't know the exact meaning to everyone yet, but I do know a few very well.
Those ten virgins who need an extra vessel in order to buy oil are told where to buy oil and they go out to buy but when they come returning the door is already shut.
What is that oil you can buy Vizio?
We know for sure that you can't buy the Holy spirit don't we?
So what is it?
Why do you believe the every detail of a parable has a special meaning?
What's the punch line of the story? It's that some were not ready when the bridegroom came. Likewise, there will be plenty of people that are in the visible church, but aren't ready when Christ comes back. The oil MAY speak of the Holy Spirit who is in every believer (and not in unbelievers), but I don't see Christ saying that in the text. To assign meaning where it isn't stated is to add to the text.
Quote:
The point is, if you want to understand what is being said, you have to read much into it, especially the literal history of Ephraim and Judah.
Revelation looks like the writings of a madman but it is not the ravings of a madman who knows the fall Holy days and what they teach.
We have to take a lamb and show Jesus, a red heifer, a sukkot bull, goats of Yom Kippur, rams of Shavuot, doves, and so on and with each one we have to read things in it to get to Jesus at all.
And you are reading into the text what isn't there. You're adding to the Word of God.
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