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For me it was a gradual process over 2 years of reading after someone in here challenged me to leave my comfort zone and read some materials by Bart Ehrman, notably "Forged" and "Misquoting Jesus". It was like a snowball effect--the small snowball I started rolling down the mountain gradually became a monolith. I couldn't deny the Christian religion was a jimmied faith filled with rigged beliefs designed to attract followers. The biggest determinants were:
1. No contemporary secular historical accounts from Jesus' time despite the gospels saying, "His fame spread far and wide"
2. Gospels written 40-70 years after Jesus' death by unknown authors
3. The tomb of Joseph of Aramathia never preserved as a shrine
4. Conflicting accounts in the gospels
5. Bad prophecies made by Jesus about his return in his disciples' lifetimes:
“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28) “Behold, I have told you in advance. So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.“ (Matthew 24: 25-34) “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…“ (Mark 13:26-30) “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near. Then He told them a parable: Behold the fig tree and all the trees; as soon as they put forth leaves, you see it and know for yourselves that summer is now near. So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place.“ (Luke 21:27-32)
a chief problem there imo is that a calendar does not get changed by a conspiracy. Also, at least #1 and #5 may be answered by the Fall of Rome, perhaps, and it is not true that there are no contemporary mentions of Christ, they are just worded so as to be disputable.
Your paragraph outlines the preterist view, essentially; that Christ did return, in AD 70; although i guess that was not your reason for posting it? But if you are trying to find God with your mind, i think you are doomed to failure anyway. Unless you are a physicist, of course--they all seem to become believers lol.
Despite being raised in a staunchly Catholic home, attending Catholic schools, becoming an altar boy for several years, I gradually realized around the age of 14 or so, that I didn't really believe any of it.
It simply made no sense that an Omni-Everything God could be as stupid, petty and murderous as the OT god.
And then to swallow the whole kinder, gentler morphing of that god to his "son" who is also really him (or maybe 1/3rd of him) and who died for mankind - but he really didn't - he just pretended to be dead and then spiraled up into heaven. And because of that pretend death, mankind is supposed to be free of the sin that he (in the guise of his dad) inflicted on mankind in the first place.
It. Just. Made. No. Sense.
The bible god is not, never was, and never will be, real to me.
So, I meander a different path now, quite contentedly.
Despite being raised in a staunchly Catholic home, attending Catholic schools, becoming an altar boy for several years, I gradually realized around the age of 14 or so, that I didn't really believe any of it.
It simply made no sense that an Omni-Everything God could be as stupid, petty and murderous as the OT god.
And then to swallow the whole kinder, gentler morphing of that god to his "son" who is also really him (or maybe 1/3rd of him) and who died for mankind - but he really didn't - he just pretended to be dead and then spiraled up into heaven. And because of that pretend death, mankind is supposed to be free of the sin that he (in the guise of his dad) inflicted on mankind in the first place.
It. Just. Made. No. Sense.
The bible god is not, never was, and never will be, real to me.
what will be heard by a believer there is that you let other men define God for you, and read your Bible for you, though. Your understanding of "God, morphing" will be seen as evidence of this. If religion is false, God must be, too?
I was in my teens. Raised Baptist and when my parents divorced, the church "asked" us to leave. I just didn't know that until later and couldn't understand why all those people abandoned us.
I tried going to another church for awhile then heard the pastor there got busted for dallying with a young girl.
Later I read a book ("Mister God, This is Anna") that kinda changed my whole perspective on organized religion. I still consider myself a Christian but I do tend to have a more "world view" in my beliefs. I don't feel the need to attend group sessions to enhance my beliefs.
a chief problem there imo is that a calendar does not get changed by a conspiracy. Also, at least #1 and #5 may be answered by the Fall of Rome, perhaps, and it is not true that there are no contemporary mentions of Christ, they are just worded so as to be disputable.
Your paragraph outlines the preterist view, essentially; that Christ did return, in AD 70; although i guess that was not your reason for posting it? But if you are trying to find God with your mind, i think you are doomed to failure anyway. Unless you are a physicist, of course--they all seem to become believers lol.
I dallied with preterism for a short while, but then I realized that for Jesus' failed prophecies outlined in point 5 of my OP to be true it would have to have been witnessed visibly by the entire world, All the fighting in the sacking of Jerusalem would have immediately stopped as everybody gazed heavenward as Jesus descended in the clouds with the ear-splitting blasts of trumpets and angels flying all around his throne.
All this either has to be literal or totally symbolic as hell. As we aren't living in heaven after a 1000 year reign of Christ on earth and all that, I have to assume either Jesus totally blew it--that these were simply delusions of grandeur in his head or Jesus never said all this about his return in the disciples lifetime--that it was all started by Paul, picked up by the gospel writers and then when Jesus' prophecies failed by the time John's gospel rolls around in 100 -120 AD or so the material about his return gradually got written out of the story.
What proves John the disciple never wrote Revelation is the fact John never mentions Jesus' return in their lifetimes in his gospel but every other sentence in Revelation mentions it. Scholars have admitted the gospel and Revelation couldn't have been written by the same person. Totally different, writing styles i.e. sentence construction, use of adjectives, apocalyptic writing and syntax. So apparently even as late as 100 AD or so some still believed Jesus would be returning and made bold albeit false predictions about his return i.e. "The time is near"
Last edited by thrillobyte; 09-21-2016 at 10:48 AM..
what will be heard by a believer there is that you let other men define God for you, and read your Bible for you, though. Your understanding of "God, morphing" will be seen as evidence of this. If religion is false, God must be, too?
The religions' versions of God, yes.
I'm not saying there's no god. But the bible version ain't it. Nor the Koran's. Nor any other religion I'm aware of.
They are cartoons. Like Odin, Zeus, Jupiter, Ganesh et al.
1) many Christians had radically different beliefs compared to what I was taught.
2) pretty much the entire body of scientific knowledge contradicted what I was taught.
3) other religions (Islam) had a hell for non-believers, which undid Pascal's Wager.
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