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Chanokh Our works will not hold up before the throne of God, because to God all our righteousness are as filthy rags, the Bible says there is none that doeth good, no not one. That is the doctrine of original sin and total depravity which the Bible confirms, and which you already let me know you don't believe in right? But it is fundamentally important to know our sinfulness before God, we all have to acknowledge we cannot offer anything to God to merit our salvation, and need to be stripped from our own righteousness, so we can freely receive Gods gift of grace through faith alone in Jesus Christ. That is true salvation, but I know that is not the way the Mormons teach it though it might sound similar.
Romans 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Isaiah 55:1-3 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness. Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.
I hope you will take the objections and differences seriously, and I believe you will, truth is important don't you think?
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Katzpur Sure, we're saved by grace. We're not saved by our own works, but if we claim to be Christ's, we have a responsibility to keep His commandments. And regardless of what Paul may have said, Jesus Christ himself said, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." He also said, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Now you may believe that all that is required of us is faith in Christ. I don't, but neither do the world's 2 billion Catholics. But who knows, maybe you don't believe them to be Christians either.
I would not mind further discussing anything you have mentioned in this thread, Chanokh, but I am done trying to defend my faith in a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with this topic. If you continue to try to hijack this thread and make it about Mormonism, I will be forced to report your behavior. Finally, if you want to try to debate your premise that my beliefs are unbiblical (i.e. that they contradict something taught in the Bible), I would be willing to do so only if we can deal with just one subject at once. In this thread, you've attempted to discuss (1) the nature of God (i.e. the Trinity doctrine and the relationship of the Father to the Son), (2) whether salvation is by a combination of faith and works or by faith alone, and (3) what we can expect the afterlife to be like in terms of our heavenly reward. Any of of these subjects deserves its own separate thread. Start three new threads on these three subjects and I will jump at the chance to debate you.
I absolutely believe truth is important. And that is why I believe as I do.
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Chanokh Okay thanks for your extensive reply and openness to discuss and consider these things Katz. And my apologies for going off topic june, ill soon try to make a dedicated thread.
So I just posted that as a re-cap of our conversation on the Jack Chick thread, I hope we can continue the discussion in this thread on the topic of salvation.
The question I want to pose is, does the Bible teach that our justification before God is something we can even partially merit by our good works? Can we be accepted by God and enter heaven based on what we have done in this life?
I quote from mormon.org: The prophet Joseph Smith taught ‘Therefore ye are justified of faith and works, through grace...’ (see JST Romans 4:16). The Book of Mormon teaches ‘For we labor diligently to write to persuade our children, and also our brethren to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace we are saved after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23)
Is that true? Does the Bible say that we are saved by grace "after all we can do"? Are we justified of faith and works?
I really think that is not what the Bible teaches on the topic of justification, I emphasize justification because it's easy to confuse justification and sanctification and mix the two up.
The definition of justification is: "the action of declaring or making righteous in the sight of God."
sanctification is: "is the act or process of acquiring sanctity, of being made or becoming holy."
They are two different subjects, and only the first - justification - is the reason we will or will not be saved. Only after our justification is settled, our sanctification starts, as Ephesians 2 clearly shows:
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith [justification]; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them [sanctification].
And the great thing about our salvation by faith alone, is that it doesn't hinge at all upon our own efforts and merits, but upon the finished work on the cross by our Lord Jesus Christ. It is given to us by grace and it will be completed in eternity because of Gods grace - never is there any adding to the grace of our salvation by the works of our own hands.
The fact that sincere faith always includes repentance from sin and will bear fruit accordingly is evident from Scripture, some 30, some 60 and some 100-fold.. but the fruit is never the cause of salvation, the Lord Jesus Christ is.
The text you mentioned earlier from Matthew 7:21 is describing hypocrits without a true faith, but that text certainly doesn't teach our salvation is by faith and works - the salvation of believers is by sincere faith in Jesus Christ and that relationship will always bear fruit accordingly. Remember our Lord said to them: "I never knew you". They had not that relationship by sincere faith, which accordingly bears fruit, and it became evident because they worked iniquity. But again, the fruit is never the cause or the reason for salvation, not even partially, the relationship by faith to the Lord Jesus Christ alone is.
Matthew 7:21-22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It's just a very small start on the grand and vitally important topic of justification, but I will leave it for now and I am looking forward to your reply and your view on how your works do infact contribute to your salvation as Joseph Smith said.
So I just posted that as a re-cap of our conversation on the Jack Chick thread, I hope we can continue the discussion in this thread on the topic of salvation.
For starters, thank you for starting a new thread. I just have a thing about sticking to the topic of the OP, and your comments about Mormonism did seem to me to be inappropriate on the thread about Jack Chick's death.
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The question I want to pose is, does the Bible teach that our justification before God is something we can even partially merit by our good works? Can we be accepted by God and enter heaven based on what we have done in this life?
Before I address these questions, I am going to rearrange your comments just a little bit. I hope you won't mind. I think it's very important that we both agree on our understanding of the terminology we're going to use in this debate.
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...it's easy to confuse justification and sanctification and mix the two up.
The definition of justification is: "the action of declaring or making righteous in the sight of God."
sanctification is: "is the act or process of acquiring sanctity, of being made or becoming holy."
They are two different subjects, and only the first - justification - is the reason we will or will not be saved. Only after our justification is settled, our sanctification starts...
It may surprise you to learn that I agree pretty much 100% with your statement that we mix up the terms justification and sanctification. I'm also in agreement with your definition of the two words. That said, Mormons use the word "salvation" (or the act or state of being "saved") to mean both justification and sanctification. In our scripture study, it's generally pretty easy to determine whether "salvation" is being used to mean "justification" or "sanctification," just based on the context in which the word is used. So, when we talk about "being saved," we can be referring to "being justified" or to "being sanctified." Actually, the writers of the Bible did this, too, and at times even used the words "justified" and "sanctified" as synonyms, even though, as you and I agree, they really aren't. You asked:
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Does the Bible teach that our justification before God is something we can even partially merit by our good works? Can we be accepted by God and enter heaven based on what we have done in this life?
You then concluded that the Bible does not teach this, but that Mormonism does. You cited Ephesians, which states that works don't come into play in our salvation in any way, shape or form. I'll respond by citing James 2:20-22, which states:
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
James clearly states that one is "justified by works." You can argue as vehemently as you like that it means something entirely different than what it actually says, but it's right there in black and white. Mormonism doesn't teach that we are justified by our works, but it does teach that we are sanctified by them. Technically speaking, we would probably say that Abraham was not saved (justified) by his works, but that they certain did contribute to his later being sanctified.
As to whether we can be accepted by God and enter heaven based on what we have done in this life, the answer is "no." We cannot do anything to "save" ourselves or to entitle ourselves to be admitted into Heaven. No quantity of good works will get us anywhere. Without Jesus Christ, we would have absolutely no hope of being either sanctified or justified. As a matter of fact, we would have no hope of a resurrection. We would forever be estranged from God.
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I quote from mormon.org: The prophet Joseph Smith taught ‘Therefore ye are justified of faith and works, through grace...’ (see JST Romans 4:16). The Book of Mormon teaches ‘For we labor diligently to write to persuade our children, and also our brethren to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace we are saved after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23)
Is that true? Does the Bible say that we are saved by grace "after all we can do"? Are we justified of faith and works?
The verse you quoted from The Book of Mormon (2 Nephi 25:23) is one fundamentalists love to use in debating with Mormons. What does "it is by grace we are saved after all we can do" really mean? It means, "it is by grace we are saved after all is said and done." You may argue that Joseph Smith used the word "justified" and that this means we Mormons believe we can work our way into Heaven. Well, as I have demonstrated, James used the same word exactly in referring to Abraham.
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And the great thing about our salvation by faith alone, is that it doesn't hinge at all upon our own efforts and merits, but upon the finished work on the cross by our Lord Jesus Christ. It is given to us by grace and it will be completed in eternity because of Gods grace - never is there any adding to the grace of our salvation by the works of our own hands.
That's absolutely right. Salvation (when used to mean justification) does not hinge upon our own merits. It hinges upon faith in Jesus Christ. The thing is, Mormonism teaches that death does not mark the final curtain of our existence, but merely an intermission. Billions have lived and died without ever having had the opportunity to even hear the name of their Savior, much less being able to understand and accept His gospel. We believe that these individuals will be given that chance during the period of time in between their death and their resurrection and the final judgment. So, our faith in Christ is the key to being welcomed into Heaven, but we Mormons just see this timeframe as being sufficient to make the judgment fair and equitable for all.
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The fact that sincere faith always includes repentance from sin and will bear fruit accordingly is evident from Scripture, some 30, some 60 and some 100-fold.. but the fruit is never the cause of salvation, the Lord Jesus Christ is.
The fruit is not the cause of salvation (meaning justification) but it is the cause, or, more accurately phrased, a contributing factor of salvation (meaning sanctification).
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The text you mentioned earlier from Matthew 7:21 is describing hypocrits without a true faith, but that text certainly doesn't teach our salvation is by faith and works - the salvation of believers is by sincere faith in Jesus Christ and that relationship will always bear fruit accordingly. Remember our Lord said to them: "I never knew you". They had not that relationship by sincere faith, which accordingly bears fruit, and it became evident because they worked iniquity. But again, the fruit is never the cause or the reason for salvation, not even partially, the relationship by faith to the Lord Jesus Christ alone is.
Matthew 7:21-22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
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It's just a very small start on the grand and vitally important topic of justification, but I will leave it for now and I am looking forward to your reply and your view on how your works do in fact contribute to your salvation as Joseph Smith said.
Well, I certainly wouldn't argue with you that those He referred to as "goats" were hypocrites. The fact remains that they stood before Him at the judgment as addressed Him as "Lord." They simply failed to recognize that even though they saw themselves as His followers, their professed faith in Him wasn't enough. It was only those who followed His example of how to live and serve their fellow human beings who were offered "eternal life."
I'd like to add one final thought. If it seems that Mormons are focused on works, it might be because we truly do believe that God desires that we all be ultimately not merely justified, but sanctified. We want more than just to avoid some kind of eternal punishment. We strive for something higher, and we can only hope to attain it by obedience and faithfulness. I am so, so, so grateful, not only for Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice but for His gift of repentance. I don't try to live the best I can in order to earn a better reward than the next guy. I live the best I can because I love my Father in Heaven and His Son Jesus Christ. I am so grateful for all they have done for me and given me that I want to please them. I don't believe I can do that by merely saying, "Lord, I believe." I believe that if I'm going to talk the talk, I've got to walk the walk.
By the way, Roman Catholics (and probably Eastern Orthodox Christians) also believe in the importance of good works. Mormons comprise 1/5th of 1% of the world's population. Catholics comprises roughly one third of the world's population. Since they are vastly larger than we are, I'm curious as to why you would be so interested in focusing on what Mormonism teaches as opposed to what Catholicism teaches in this regard.
It seems to me that the problem in understanding is even more basic: what is "salvation?"
If you think it is a one-time deal that assures entrance to heaven, you will argue that it is ALL about faith and not works.
If you believe that salvation is from a life of selfishness (sin) and to community with God and man, then clearly how we act is a part of the process (sanctification).
Well, I certainly wouldn't argue with you that those He referred to as "goats" were hypocrites. The fact remains that they stood before Him at the judgment as addressed Him as "Lord." They simply failed to recognize that even though they saw themselves as His followers, their professed faith in Him wasn't enough. It was only those who followed His example of how to live and serve their fellow human beings who were offered "eternal life."
I'd like to add one final thought. If it seems that Mormons are focused on works, it might be because we truly do believe that God desires that we all be ultimately not merely justified, but sanctified. We want more than just to avoid some kind of eternal punishment. We strive for something higher, and we can only hope to attain it by obedience and faithfulness. I am so, so, so grateful, not only for Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice but for His gift of repentance. I don't try to live the best I can in order to earn a better reward than the next guy. I live the best I can because I love my Father in Heaven and His Son Jesus Christ. I am so grateful for all they have done for me and given me that I want to please them. I don't believe I can do that by merely saying, "Lord, I believe." I believe that if I'm going to talk the talk, I've got to walk the walk.
By the way, Roman Catholics (and probably Eastern Orthodox Christians) also believe in the importance of good works. Mormons comprise 1/5th of 1% of the world's population. Catholics comprises roughly one third of the world's population. Since they are vastly larger than we are, I'm curious as to why you would be so interested in focusing on what Mormonism teaches as opposed to what Catholicism teaches in this regard.[/quote]
bravo Katzpur for IMHO a very good response-- especially as far as Catholics, Orthodox, and apparently LDS see as the distinction between justification (where by God's FREE grace we believe we become a "new creation" and "adopted children" of God) and sanctification (where by faith AND works done in love we show to God and neighbor that we are indeed really and sincerely His children by continuing to live that new life we have received despite the world, the flesh, and devil) one might call it "fighting the good fight", LOL. Jesus talks about "bearing good fruits" and apparently those good fruits include forgiveness of and care for those we share this world with. when the sheep and goats are separated (see Matt. 25) Jesus apparently will make the separation according to whether we fed the hungry, clothed the naked, etc.
perhaps all the talk about faith and works may be understood in relation to what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13 when he talks that even if we have great faith sufficient to move mountains, prophecy that knows all things, speak in all tongues, or even give all our wealth away and our lives, too SO THAT (WE) CAN BOAST but DO NOT HAVE LOVE---then all these great and wonderful things are nothing!!!
just maybe the most significant thing comes a bit later when the great apostle says, "...there exist three things: faith, hope, and love(agape) BUT THE GREATEST OF THESE IS LOVE." perhaps unless our faith and our works is infused with that love of God and neighbor our discourses and discussions (and disagreements) our faith is dead and our works are ultimately futile.
NateSwift I think you have summed up the problem to the question well!!!
in the peace of Christ.
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 10-31-2016 at 01:44 PM..
It seems to me that the problem in understanding is even more basic: what is "salvation?"
I agree. Mormons, as I already explained to Chanokh, see "salvation" as having more than just one meaning. (1) There is salvation from the permanence of death. (2) There is salvation from eternal torment (in order words, being granted entrance to Heaven). (3) There is what Mormons would refer to as "the fullness of salvation" which is eternal life in God's presence. There may be even more finely nuanced meanings than these three. If I were to try to explain my understanding of what a person has to do to be "saved" in each of these three ways, I would say -- and this is definitely an "in a nutshell" attempt to summarize my beliefs -- I would do so as follows:
(1) Salvation from death: All you have to do is have lived and died, and not committed the one unpardonable sin, which is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. In LDS theology, this sin involves something a whole lot more serious than picking the "wrong" denomination/religion or being wrong about certain points of doctrine. It is a sin that very few people even have the potential to commit. It requires a degree of knowledge that most of us will never have, as we walk by faith rather than by absolute knowledge. As 1 Corinthians 15:22 states, "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
(2) Salvation from eternal torment: To avoid eternal torment, I believe one must acknowledge the role of Jesus Christ in overcoming death and facilitating a reconcilement with God. This may not necessarily take place during mortality, as clearly, not all have been given the opportunity to do so while here on earth. But as Romans 14:11 states, "As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." We believe in what can essentially be described as the universal reconciliation of man to God. The number of souls that will ultimately be lost (due to their committing the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost) will be very, very, very few.
(3) The fullness of salvation: Mormons use this phrase to mean sanctification, exaltation, or eternal life in the presence of God. This requires devotion and commitment on our part. Christ said He would reward every man "according to his works." And the greater the faithfulness, the greater the reward. So, we believe that almost everyone will end up going to Heaven, but that some will receive a greater reward than others.
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If you think it is a one-time deal that assures entrance to heaven, you will argue that it is ALL about faith and not works.
Agreed. I really have a hard time with people who make comments like, "I was saved on Monday, October 17 at 5:30 P.M." While a faith-promoting incident which occurred on Monday, October 17 at 5:30 P.M. may have been the catalyst for the realization that Jesus Christ's Atonement is real and personal, the split-second epiphany really doesn't have much to do with being "saved."
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If you believe that salvation is from a life of selfishness (sin) and to community with God and man, then clearly how we act is a part of the process (sanctification).
Agreed again. And that is yet another meaning of the word "salvation."
Works will never be the metrics by which we are judged, FAITH, MERCY and JUSTICE will be the criteria we are measured.
John 6
28 They asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?†29*Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.â€
Works will never be the metrics by which we are judged, FAITH, MERCY and JUSTICE will be the criteria we are measured.
Could you elaborate? Jesus Christ said He would reward every man according to his works. I'm having a hard time trying to reconcile this with your statement. Do you believe that God would prefer that we not do good works? Or do you think He commands us to do good works, but that in the end, it really doesn't matter to Him whether we obey Him or not?
1 Corinthians 13:1-3 states, "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." If charity is the pure love of Christ, don't you think it is important to God that we have this quality. Charity is not a synonym for love. It is love in action. To me, the really interesting part of this passage is how it actually explains what charity is. We tend to think of charity as "bestowing our goods to feed the poor" or something along those lines. But just the act of giving apparently "profits us nothing." We have to genuinely feel the love that Jesus felt for everyone and act on that love.
At the end of the day, we will not be "saved" by our works, but we will be judged and rewarded for them. It seems to me that Jesus Christ could not very well "reward every man according to his works" unless He judged them in some way.
Basically Jesus was a innocent man who was killed by people who had envy against Jesus ..... So God raised up Jesus from the dead and Jesus became God only judgment for man , as all man are condemned to die and be lost eternally condemned ....... So who sides with Jesus Christ and obey the rule of repentance of sin, reject the spiritual devil and his hoards , and love the Lord with faith will be saved from eternal damnation , and then be in unity with God through His Spirit of Christ ......... ...... See our Works of Christ is the calling for the Great commission of souls for heaven only , and the things which people do outside of this for Jesus is not considered Works of Christ
For starters, thank you for starting a newthread. I just have a thing about sticking to the topic of the OP,and your comments about Mormonism did seem to me to be inappropriateon the thread about Jack Chick's death.
You're most welcome!
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Before I address these questions, I am going to rearrangeyour comments just a little bit. I hope you won't mind. I think it'svery important that we both agree on our understanding of theterminology we're going to use in this debate.
I agree.
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It may surprise you to learn that I agree pretty much 100%with your statement that we mix up the terms justification andsanctification. I'm also in agreement with your definition of the twowords. That said, Mormons use the word "salvation" (or theact or state of being "saved") to mean both justificationand sanctification. In our scripture study, it's generally prettyeasy to determine whether "salvation" is being used to mean"justification" or "sanctification," justbased on the context in which the word is used. So, when we talkabout "being saved," we can be referring to "beingjustified" or to "being sanctified." Actually, thewriters of the Bible did this, too, and at times even used the words"justified" and "sanctified" as synonyms, eventhough, as you and I agree, they really aren't. You asked:
I agree, our salvation as a whole encompasses both justification and sanctification. But the question I posed is not what it encompasses in it's entirety, the question was the foundation of our salvation, how do we become justified in the sight of God? On what is it founded?
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does the Bible teach that our justification before God is something we can even partially merit by our good works?
And this is the hard part because even though you seem to come along way in agreement, we remain on two completely different ends of the spectrum because as I see it, you say that our justification is of grace, but the reality of the matter in Mormon life and practise (from what I read and hear) is that works are vitally important towards our salvation/exaltation. Example is the 10 % tithing which is required of every member.
Also a couple of views from the LDS Church compared to the Scriptures, to put your view of salvation in a clearer light compared to what the Bible teaches:
"One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation," (Miracle of Forgiveness, by Spencer W.Kimball, p. 206).
Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188).
Acts 4:10-12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Good works are necessary for salvation (Articles of Faith,p. 92).
Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
"This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women tolay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts,"
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
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You then concluded that the Bible does not teach this, but that Mormonism does. You cited Ephesians, which states that works don't come into play in our salvation in any way, shape or form. I'll respond by citing James 2:20-22, which states:
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works,when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
James clearly states that one is "justified by works."You can argue as vehemently as you like that it means something entirely different than what it actually says, but it's right therein black and white. Mormonism doesn't teach that we are justified by our works, but it does teach that we are sanctified by them. Technically speaking, we would probably say that Abraham was not saved (justified) by his works, but that they certain did contribute to his later being sanctified.
I will argue “vehemently” indeed that these verses by James and the verses I posted above by the apostle Paul are not contradicting each other. And that what James is saying is not that the works of the law are the foundation of our justification before God. But what he is arguing is that faith has to bear fruit of godly works, or it is dead and useless – which is ofcourse true. But the thief on the cross is a fine example of a man that had no ability or opportunity to perform any works to justify himself, yet our Lord said that he would be with Him in paradise that very day, he was saved after living a wicked life of sin, based on the faith that he had in our Lord right then and there on the cross. And I think that example is in the Bible for a reason.
It is obvious that when James says that Abraham was “justified by works” he doesn't mean that God justified Abraham – as in, declared him Righteous in His sight – on the foundation of Abrahams works. In Genesis 15, the Word of God says that Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him as Righteousness.
Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Now the “works” of Abraham that James is referring to is the sacrifice of Isaac (James 2:21), which happened after Genesis 15:6 where the Lord counted Abraham righteous based on his faith. Ofcourse this work of obedience to the Lord was the fruit of that sincere faith, the works are a proof of his faith, but as Scripture clearly shows, it is not the basis of his 'being counted Righteous' before God since that happened a long time before he performed the work James mentions. James is exhorting the believers he's writing to, to live what they say they believe, and I think many Churches in our days can really use that same exhortation. Nonetheless it does not negate or contradict the words of the apostle Paul in Galatians and Romans, that we are not justified by the deeds of the law "for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified". And that truth will remain standing like a rock for eternity, by the law we know our sin.. and by faith in the Living God, in His Son Jesus Christ, can we be forgiven of our sin and declared Righteous before God. That is the amazing grace and foundation of our salvation, the free gift of God that grants us eternal life by faith in His Son.
I'll just leave with this for now, hope to reply to more of your post soon.
God bless you
Last edited by Chanokh; 11-01-2016 at 06:59 AM..
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