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Hannibal, my point all along in this thread has been this...
You find meaning and belonging in the study of the Jewish feasts and, for you at this time at least, not studying those feasts or celebrating anything other than those feasts, would be a lack of good faith with God. You are following your conscience. Good. Further, I gather from previous conversations that this is important to you because in studying the "secret language" of the feasts and such, you see proof of the existence of God. Again, good. I've got no quibble with you. Here's the question: are you able to accept that God is capable and willing to reveal Godself to others in ways that are meaningful to them, even if they are not meaningful to you?
Hannibal, my point all along in this thread has been this...
You find meaning and belonging in the study of the Jewish feasts and, for you at this time at least, not studying those feasts or celebrating anything other than those feasts, would be a lack of good faith with God. You are following your conscience. Good. Further, I gather from previous conversations that this is important to you because in studying the "secret language" of the feasts and such, you see proof of the existence of God. Again, good. I've got no quibble with you. Here's the question: are you able to accept that God is capable and willing to reveal Godself to others in ways that are meaningful to them, even if they are not meaningful to you?
By the way ... What is "salvation" to you?
Yes, I believe God reveals himself to most everyone but that refusing truth will stop a person from progressing past any point, it is a 7 years covenant, it is one week for mankind to walk in with each day named and Passover is the first day.
What is salvation, that is really the question, what is the goal of the Christian and what does he plan to get out of following God?
Those answers are answered in the design of the Temple and the comings and goings of the temple, the temple was built in an exact fashion because it in fact shows us what the kingdom of heaven really is, and just as we are the Temple and it is the shadow of heaven, those feasts are the comings and goings of God within a person so that they may know God and when to call on him, and what heaven really is in 3 sections and what the Two sections of the temple proper show in relation to the outer court where the burnt offering is.
Unfortunately, although people claim to be the temple of God, they really don't want to study what they are.
The Temple is specifically designed to instruct a person how to become born as a brand new creature and this isn't a symbolic thing, it is an actual new being when one is born again and this cannot take place within a person who rejects the gifts that the feast days promise. One cannot be sealed with protection between his eyes if he will simply not follow and he has come to a dead end.
But what is the difference between salvation and reward?
The difference is being born again and not being born again. Paul was angry at his churches because Christ had not even been formed in them yet and this was years after they believed and they were still not born again as new creatures, they were still babies of Paul until Christ really could be formed in them and this son of Christ, this new creature is a baby on the study of the word of God until he can learn all the ways of God in his instructions on just how to become born again, how to overcome the fallen spirit within.
If a Christian is a pagan, it isn't so much that he practices pagan things, it is his rejection of the instructions that you have to study day and night so that you do not remain a baby, If you decide not to study the temple, you have decided not to study what you are, and if you decide not to study all the feasts and traditions, you have decided not to raise the child of God that was put inside you like a seed and if that child remains a baby at the end of your life, how could it become a powerful priest, a son and brethren of Christ?
The overcomers of this world are very few, I don't really expect to be one myself and they are firstfruits of God who will actually birth full grown men.
The prophets have declared that God has created a new thing in the Earth,'' A woman will give birth to a full grown son.''
If it is not full grown, the child will be taken because the child is an immortal, transformed body of unlimited power and you cannot give a baby something like this, it has to be a full grown man. The brethren cannot inherit the body of a child.
The final goal and outcome is simple.
This Earth and humanity is put here to raise sons of God, and these sons of God inherit each promise that the father gave his son, Jesus gives to his sons and what does this mean?
It means that the overcomer will have an earth created just for him and he will rule all nations and all people on that Earth just as Jesus had obtained that same reward and as Adam had likewise obtained.
This Earth is here to birth brethren of Jesus who will go down to an Earth to do exactly what Jesus did on this Earth because they have obtained all the promises that was given to Jesus and the promises is that Jesus came and his own bride was created from his own body and he literally became a spirit within all people.
This is the promise to the overcomer.
Revelation 2
26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over all the nations: 27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. 28And I will give him the morning star. 29He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Again, the overcomer who has been born again and caught up to God.
Revelation 12
5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days
That is exactly what happens when a person has been born again because he has studied and raised a child on the milk of the word and now he eats meat like a full grown man.
Those are the brethren of Christ who follow him into a new kingdom after he was the first born son of many sons.
But what happens to the children, what happens to the babies and those who are weaning children because they keep pagan feasts and don't know the feasts of Jesus to raise their sons?
Here are those babies.
Revelation 2
20Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts:
Why will all the churches know when the babies are killed?
What I suspect is that people really don't understand that being born again is literally birthing a brand new creature, when one has come up to Rosh Hashanah to be born again, that child is caught up to God and protected while the person who remains is given great strength and led into much knowledge.
We aren't here to train for some form of life after death in a mere salvation, we are in training to become sons of God who obtain their own earth and their own bride as their own congregation being a brethren of Christ instead of just a son.
The goal is to be given power over all the nations of an entire Earth so much so that you alone will rule them with a great rod of iron.
...
We aren't here to train for some form of life after death in a mere salvation
That is what you think salvation is? "Some form of life [existence] after death"? But you think most people will be spending that "life" wailing and gnashing their teeth in some outer darkness. How is that being saved (sozo: healed, made whole)?
I wish I could unlearn and give back understanding.
ranting seems so much easier than actually having to think about it. Sometimes I wish I was on one side or the other with no understanding or concern about the other sides innocent people..
I wish I could just look at a giant mountain with complete lack of wondering of how it got there and get rid of the desire to find out why it works like that.
That is what you think salvation is? "Some form of life [existence] after death"? But you think most people will be spending that "life" wailing and gnashing their teeth in some outer darkness. How is that being saved (sozo: healed, made whole)?
That is what you think salvation is? "Some form of life [existence] after death"? But you think most people will be spending that "life" wailing and gnashing their teeth in some outer darkness. How is that being saved (sozo: healed, made whole)?
The people wailing and gnashing their teeth aren't in hell, they weep and gnash their teeth with their salvation but they had finally realized what Zoe life is. There are two words for the word,'' Life.''
One means life, salvation after death and one would be thankful for this because it is life, it is salvation, but it is not Zoe life.
The Zoe abundant life kingdom is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven while the outer court is the least in the kingdom of heaven. People teach the name of Jesus and do miracles in his name and they just assume that they will be judges who judge the 12 tribes of Israel, they all assume that they will die and go to recline with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob when in fact, many will try and enter into the Zoe kingdom to then be escorted out of that kingdom.
This is the greatest confusion in the New Testament.
Inheriting the kingdom of heaven in this verse doesn't mean a person is not saved, it is speaking about the higher kingdom. I am amongst the people who commit such acts and although I am saved, I seriously doubt that I will be able to enter into Zoe life.
Because people do not study the temple and it's 3 sections, they just don't realize what heaven is because the Temple design is designed specifically to show us what heaven is with it's outer court of burnt offering for a very broad salvation, and then it's Holy place where you have actually become Israel, and then through the veil into the Holy of Holies. Very few people in history have made it into the Holy of Holies to reside there. Each person has the propensity to stand boldly in front of this last veil for salvation also when they are sealed in their foreheads on Rosh Hashanah against Yom Kippur, but few people progress so far as to call them a high priest and it is one in a million. If you don't keep the feasts of Jesus, you don't get sealed in your forehead with God's protective seal and so you can't stand boldly before the veil but there is still salvation in the court. Standing boldly before the throne of grace means that you had done what is required to have your name written in the good book, and you are sealed against the great Trumpet of Yom Kippur, but if one does not get sealed, he can't come standing boldly on Yom Kippur.
WE are given the design of the temple so that we may understand what heaven really is, and there is a least and a greatest and while a person may have salvation and life, the zoe abundant life is so much more that people will weep and gnash their teeth simply because they did not try harder, but mostly because they simply do not know the design and the comings and goings of the temple that they claim to be. Knowing the temple is knowing yourself and exactly where you stand and reside in the design of the kingdom of heaven.
It is the greatest confusion because people see black and white. They put a big box right there and all the people going to heaven go in the box, all the people going to hell don't get in the box and heaven is just not that way.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 02-05-2017 at 01:21 PM..
What is salvation? What are your hopes in life after death?
The Universe will always be in spiritual warfare, and what are the statistics of there being more than one habitable earth?
I don't know how a person gets his mind around a number like,'' 1 Trillion,'' this number is so big that if you were talking about the life of an earth, we could pretty much say that it means,'' FOREVER.''
Given the time of this universe and the vastness of it, the scientist say that if Earth is just one in a trillion planets that could support life, then statistically we can say that there has already been 4 billion Earths that had water, had life, and was habitable for humans to live on just like this Earth, and that the sheer amount of time since this universe had begun, 4 billion earths had already evolved humans and it has been so long that their star has even blown up, that at least 4 billion earths full of people had already come and gone if we stick to the odds at, ''1 in a trillion.''
If you take a trillion Earths, and only one earth out of that trillion could evolve humans then there has already been 4 billion earths that had come and gone and there are literally billions/trillions? of Earths right now that begin with animals until humans evolve and at some point, a spirit comes to that Earth.
I cannot believe we are here so that we can go to heaven and praise God, there are unlimited earths out there, and all of these earths evolve people that will one day receive a small piece of God and they will be given the chance to actually create God because what God does is multiply himself as he gets bigger and bigger and bigger, he has no beginning and no end.
Each Earth that has life is in need of an army of God, each person right from the beginning is appointed angels or{sons of God}. A spiritual warfare is taking place where spirits go down to whisper in people's ear to Guide them just as Adam is within people right now.
Everyone who was born of this Earth was born with the spirits of Adam and these are individual spirits that are to whisper and guide a person into truth but that the spirit of Adam had fallen, we needed a new Adam and Jesus was the only person who was not born of the spirit of Adam but he was born of Eve in the flesh.
Being born again is to be given a seed from a new Adam, from the spirit of Jesus that replaces the old spirit and a person has to see the one who he rejects in order to accept and follow the one he now wants to accept.
We are born into a marriage with a fallen spirit and we cannot produce a son of God because it is a fallen spirit and so we needed a new Adam who would actually give us a piece of God and show us how to become a brand new creature that we will be raising the sons of God. We have been made keepers over the household of God to raise and feed his children so that the children of God become grown men and are able to eat meat in due season.
An Overcomer is promised an entire Earth, that he and he alone will rule ALL NATIONS ON THAT ENTIRE EATH.
He has literally inherited the earth and this rule is not done upon a throne, it is done within the hearts and minds of everyone on the planet, he has rule and authority to indwell anyone he wants, he has the authority to bring death and to guide a person wherever he wants and he has become the great general over his own congregation because he is a male, not a female. The overcomer who receives all the promises of Jesus are given an entire Earth just as Jesus was given this Earth and if there is more than one overcomer, there has to be another earth because the promise is an entire earth for each one and they do not share the rule.
The idea of God is that he simply multiplies himself and he does this through an evolved earth where his spirit comes to an evolved human and that Human becomes something much more greater than an animal.
Each earth will have a ruler but as any ruler has it's own people, so too did Adam, so too does Jesus.
What is salvation and life to the average Christian?
It means that you will be a worker because there is much work to do and the work will never stop but will you be found worthy to be able to inspire a person?
I don't believe learning ever stops, I believe how much we learn in this life is going to put us in order in the next life. I doubt there is anything much anyone can achieve through the work of their own hands except that he spent his life studying who God was, that he knows God and the more he knows, the more he will be put in charge of like the parables show in the minas.
The person given a seed of God who then buried it so he can't multiply it, that seed will be taken from him and given to the man who has multiplied God.
The talents show the same thing, we are made keeper over the household of God to give his children meat in due season and there is really an actual piece of God inside us when Christ can be formed after much study.
I think there are unlimited earths and that people who just have mere salvation will go down to one of those earths to guide people as there are spirits guiding us now, but the difference between just being saved and birthing a full grown man of God is that one is given complete rule over the entire earth while the other is a servant under his rule. One is a spirit with no body, and the other owns all the bodies.
Revelation 2 26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. 28And I will give him the morning star. 29He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
The work will never end and thank God we have a work to do after this life, I believe our entire being is that we are just here to multiply the spirit of God and he gets bigger each day.
Just my opinion, but what does it mean that the father promised his son that he should rule over all the nations with a rod of iron?''
The people wailing and gnashing their teeth aren't in hell,
I don't believe in hell; you don't believe in hell; we both know the other doesn't believe in hell, so we can leave that concept out of our conversations forever and ever, amen.
Quote:
<snipped>...
It is the greatest confusion because people see black and white. They put a big box right there and all the people going to heaven go in the box, all the people going to hell don't get in the box and heaven is just not that way.
I don't see black and white. I don't see people going to heaven or hell. I know you don't; you know I don't, so we can leave this concept out of our conversations forever and ever, amen.
Agreed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannnibal
What I suspect is that people really don't understand that being born again is literally birthing a brand new creature, when one has come up to Rosh Hashanah to be born again, that child is caught up to God and protected while the person who remains is given great strength and led into much knowledge.
We aren't here to train for some form of life after death in a mere salvation, we are in training to become sons of God who obtain their own earth and their own bride as their own congregation being a brethren of Christ instead of just a son.
The goal is to be given power over all the nations of an entire Earth so much so that you alone will rule them with a great rod of iron.
Okay, "ruling with an iron rod" is what you see as the prize. I know you're not the only one who sees that. Whether you're right or wrong, ruling over others has just never held any appeal to me and I don't see that as abundant life, for me personally. Helping, healing, creating, learning, loving, "setting captives free" ... those are the things that call to me. I see no reason that anyone other than God needs to do any ruling over anyone, but what do I know of how a potential "afterlife" looks? I'll trust that things will be as they are supposed to be.
I don't believe in hell; you don't believe in hell; we both know the other doesn't believe in hell, so we can leave that concept out of our conversations forever and ever, amen.
I don't see black and white. I don't see people going to heaven or hell. I know you don't; you know I don't, so we can leave this concept out of our conversations forever and ever, amen.
Okay, "ruling with an iron rod" is what you see as the prize. I know you're not the only one who sees that. Whether you're right or wrong, ruling over others has just never held any appeal to me and I don't see that as abundant life, for me personally. Helping, healing, creating, learning, loving, "setting captives free" ... those are the things that call to me. I see no reason that anyone other than God needs to do any ruling over anyone, but what do I know of how a potential "afterlife" looks? I'll trust that things will be as they are supposed to be.
More like ' resurrected life ' than ' afterlife '
The dead know nothing, so those who are Not yet resurrected know nothing but death's deep sleep:
- Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4; Daniel 12:2,13; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14
The majority of mankind will be resurrected during Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins.
That resurrected physical life looks like a paradisical life on a paradisical Earth - Rev. 22:2; Isaiah chapter 35
Even Jesus did Not believe in some 'religious-myth hell of burning forever'.
The Bible's hell is simply mankind temporary grave for the sleeping dead - John 11:11-14; Ecclesiastes 9:5
If biblical hell was a permanent place then Jesus would still be in biblical hell - Acts 2:27
Jesus did teach about some going to heaven ( some resurrected to heaven - Revelation 20:6)
However, the majority of people will Not go to heaven - John 3:13
The majority of people will have a happy-and-healthy 'physical resurrection' on Earth.
That is why the 'future tense' is used at Acts 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection....
Biblical hell (grave) comes to a final end after everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up ' ( resurrected ) out of the grave, then the Bible's hell is cast empty into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated biblical hell the grave - Rev. 20:13-14.
According to Ecclesiastes 8:9 man has ruled over man to man's hurt or injury.
Whereas, Jesus will rule or govern over mankind in righteousness.
That 'rod of iron' is used against the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Rev. 19:11-16; Psalm 92:7
I don't believe in hell; you don't believe in hell; we both know the other doesn't believe in hell, so we can leave that concept out of our conversations forever and ever, amen.
I don't see black and white. I don't see people going to heaven or hell. I know you don't; you know I don't, so we can leave this concept out of our conversations forever and ever, amen.
Agreed?
Okay, "ruling with an iron rod" is what you see as the prize. I know you're not the only one who sees that. Whether you're right or wrong, ruling over others has just never held any appeal to me and I don't see that as abundant life, for me personally. Helping, healing, creating, learning, loving, "setting captives free" ... those are the things that call to me. I see no reason that anyone other than God needs to do any ruling over anyone, but what do I know of how a potential "afterlife" looks? I'll trust that things will be as they are supposed to be.
Well said, Pleroo!
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Keep up the good work, Pleroo.
