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Meerkat, You and I couldn't possibly have a debate, not a fair one.
Before two people can debate a subject, they must first agree to both believe the subject matter to be true.
It is like two people trying to have a debate about the Holocaust when one of them denies the holocaust ever happened.
If you were to be fair, first, you couldn't deny the historical fact that Christianity was a sect of Judaism for over 100 years.
But that is ok, deny as you may, Let's both agree to agree on fundamental truths so that we could begin a debate. If we cannot both agree that the subject matter is true, then we can have no debate. There has to be some fundamental truths for us to have a foundation in order to have a debate.
Our foundation is that both of us make the claim that we both believe in Jesus.
My truth of this is that I actually believe what Jesus says, and you do not.
If we cannot both agree that Jesus was the Messiah and what came out of him was truth, then how can we have a fair debate about anything when one of us doesn't believe the words of Jesus, and to not believe the words of Jesus SHOULD tell us that Jesus is not the Messiah. Why believe in the New Testament at all if you don't believe the words of Jesus?
We can play a 5 to 1 true or false game where I quote 5 scriptures of Jesus own words to then prove that you don't believe Jesus, but on the other hand, you can't lay a single word of Jesus at my feet that I don't believe.
How are two to debate a subject if one of them will not agree on the most basic of fundamental truths?
I quote Jesus saying that whoever keeps the laws of Moses and teaches other to keep the laws of Moses will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
CLEARLY, you do not believe Jesus and I have plenty more words of Jesus that you couldn't possibly believe, you would prove Jesus wrong, and you only need to prove him wrong once, and so why believe in him at all?
If you were to be fair in admitting historical fact, that would be cool, but if you were committed to believe Jesus, that would be wonderful, but we both know that you could not, and do not believer Jesus words.
You use the word,'' Interpretation,'' as if anything written is not true because it has an interpretation.''
You wont believe what is actually written, while I do.
So how can we have a fair debate when we have no fundamental truth?
Jesus says that whoever doesn't keep the law and teaches others not to keep the laws will be the least in the kingdom of heaven, I believe EVERYTHING JUST AS IT IS WRITTEN, AND IF IT HAS AN INTERPRETATION, I BELIEVE THAT TOO.
Before you can find a spiritual interpretation, FIRST, you have to believe what the actual scripture says says, do you understand this?
How can it be fair to me if we can't both go back and prove things by Jesus own words?
to be honest I'm not really interest in a " debate" as such ...
house of Ephraim is scattered, house of Judah is also scattered.
They will be regathered but I don't think it is as you think it is. I believe that the house of Judah and the house of Ephraim are distinct entities and not to be spiritualized into being inside each person and each individual marries themselves spiritually or whatever you are trying to mentally make sense of all the symbols in the bible.
I do agree that we are totally on different wave lengths. It seems to me that with all of your learning and looking at the scriptures you have the SAME mindset that you had when you were a fundie Christian, you look to the written word, to the physical for the salvation which is of the Holy Spirit, thinking that the more you learn, you will earn a place in "heaven" with "rewards" it is the same religious "spirit" binding people to what you think and how to attain "salvation" just in a different package.
Even the title of for your thread says that you think that the kingdom of heaven is about going to a place called heaven after you die, so my opinion is that you actually miss the whole point of the scriptures.
Basically The gospel is good news to all people, in Abraham all nations will be blessed.
Old man, your memory is slipping. I DID tell you why I wasn't here for a bit. And, I still won't be around too much for a while. Life unexpectedly got even crazier than it was before. I just came here today to get a little breather.
Hope everything is going well for you, my memory is been getting worse and worse for my family to start noticing. I don't remember what happened yesterday and because my memory is so bad, I have no sense of time, maybe I am getting Alzheimers or something. I was so ashamed at lunch today because I was sitting there with a girl I went on vacation with for 7 days just a couple months ago, and I didn't know who she was today although we were 5 people in the same house for 7 days. Seems like you been gone for like 4 months but it probably aint..
Hope everything is going well for you, my memory is been getting worse and worse for my family to start noticing. I don't remember what happened yesterday and because my memory is so bad, I have no sense of time, maybe I am getting Alzheimers or something. I was so ashamed at lunch today because I was sitting there with a girl I went on vacation with for 7 days just a couple months ago, and I didn't know who she was today although we were 5 people in the same house for 7 days. Seems like you been gone for like 4 months but it probably aint..
Sounds like something you want to get checked out, Hanni.
Nah, you don't believe "in Jesus" nor do you believe "what Jesus says". Your truth is that you believe what you think some words in a book mean -- words which may or may not have been spoken by a man named Jesus.
Just to be nitpicky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
It's full of contradiction, and there's no way of knowing that any of the words attributed to Jesus actually originated with him. It's all good and no worries on my part. If what is recorded fosters love, it's on the right track and originated with God, as far as I'm concerned, and that's good enough for me.
Hi, Pleroo. Love is the filter of truth. If it is not compatible with God's love, it has nothing to do with God.
No, did you forget what I showed you it meant, already? Peace
LOL! I haven[t forgotten that you did one of your wild "interpretations" that leave what was actually SAID in the dust. Have you forgotten how I pointed out that your method" of "interpretation" completely abandons traditional Jewish usage and is evidence that you have never cracked Mishnah but rely on completely baseless conjectures by less than orthodox "scholars."
Sounds like something you want to get checked out, Hanni.
O No, I am fine, I pretty much except everything with a grin, things will go as they will and I wont worry, that's so easy when you believe everything was meant for a reason, my scars are like beloved tattoos.
It is also the most self destructive force in the Earth, I mean to believe like I do. I have sure done my part inviting death, little woose just wont show up, and as crazy as it sounds, I tell you that I shall never die.
I don't mean that I have some power that will make me live, I mean that I will never die because I am living in an age of never dying.
LOL! I haven[t forgotten that you did one of your wild "interpretations" that leave what was actually SAID in the dust. Have you forgotten how I pointed out that your method" of "interpretation" completely abandons traditional Jewish usage and is evidence that you have never cracked Mishnah but rely on completely baseless conjectures by less than orthodox "scholars."
But it didn't leave the Tabernacle pattern in the dust, did it? And again, you know nothing of what I've read or haven't. Just because they say it, if it still doesn't line up, I discard theirs, too, btw. Peace
I got some love for you, love you don't know nothing about, probably make you itch.
From what I can see, you do real well when we can keep you on topic, but then Pleroo shows up and you go all "fuzzy" on us again. Peace
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