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Then how do we know what the original word actually was intended to mean???
And why are we using 21st century books to define 4th century writing? Can we not use a 4th century thesaurus?
I posted the thesaurus to show the synonyms for the English word 'perish' in order to show that the word 'perish' in the English translation of John 3:16 is not an improper translation of the Greek word 'apollumi.'
I used other passages in the Bible to show how 'apollumi' is used in the Bible and that it need not be taken as annihilation. Apollumi in John 3:16 refers to the lost, ruined state of those who will be eternally separated from God in the lake of fire.
And the Gospel of John was written in the first century. Not the fourth century.
Now, how is it fair that I ask you questions that you won't answer, but you expect me to answer yours. Why aren't you willing to tell me why believing that God is love, and that we are ALL in the hands of God, is dangerous and scary to you.
By the way, I wanted to clear something up (and this pertains to the question you've asked). I have told you many times, and have never made it a secret on the forum at large that I am no longer a Christian. So, why do you keep saying that I claim to be one?
And this brings me to another thing that makes no sense to me. Bible-"believers" sometimes - like you are doing now - make it seem that if another person is not also a Bible-"believer" (doesn't equate the bible to God or God's Word), then whatever they say on the subject of God/the bible is worthless. Doesn't this seem suspicious to you? Shouldn't what matters simply be the validity of what's being said, rather than dismissing it out of hand based on who is saying it?
I answered your question, God is not defined by your imagination, sure, God is love, but does not put the perfect loving Hindu in the Zoe Kingdom.
I believe in a very broad salvation and this comes out of love, but salvation is the least a thing that a person makes a goal for. Love does not define God, The love of a person brings him to God, but love alone does not define the kingdom of heaven.
Love is not going to put you in the Zoe Kingdom, and although the majority are saved in the outer court, they will weep and gnash their teeth with their salvation, but not because they are in hell, but because they believed that all they had to do is love.
If Love is all a person had to do, people wouldn't not have sold their houses and been tortured trying to gain a better resurrection and we are shown the different types of resurrection, people in the outer court do not get resurrected no matter how much they love, but they have no right to complain because of their salvation.
I asked a biblical question, you asked something else.
If love is all there is, then why did Jesus come to die for you?
Jesus says that you must be born again, he didn't come to save you, he came that you might study the word enough to be born again, to raise a full grown son that you may build a house of resurrection. Those that just love, they watch their house as it burns, but they themselves are saved, but when all their works are burned, they have no resurrection.
I answered your question, God is not defined by your imagination, sure, God is love, but does not put the perfect loving Hindu in the Zoe Kingdom.
I believe in a very broad salvation and this comes out of love, but salvation is the least a thing that a person makes a goal for. Love does not define God, The love of a person brings him to God, but love alone does not define the kingdom of heaven.
Love is not going to put you in the Zoe Kingdom, and although the majority are saved in the outer court, they will weep and gnash their teeth with their salvation, but not because they are in hell, but because they believed that all they had to do is love.
If Love is all a person had to do, people wouldn't not have sold their houses and been tortured trying to gain a better resurrection and we are shown the different types of resurrection, people in the outer court do not get resurrected no matter how much they love, but they have no right to complain because of their salvation.
I asked a biblical question, you asked something else.
If love is all there is, then why did Jesus come to die for you?
Jesus says that you must be born again, he didn't come to save you, he came that you might study the word enough to be born again, to raise a full grown son that you may build a house of resurrection. Those that just love, they watch their house as it burns, but they themselves are saved, but when all their works are burned, they have no resurrection.
I answered your question, God is not defined by your imagination, sure, God is love, but does not put the perfect loving Hindu in the Zoe Kingdom.
I believe in a very broad salvation and this comes out of love, but salvation is the least a thing that a person makes a goal for. Love does not define God, The love of a person brings him to God, but love alone does not define the kingdom of heaven.
Love is not going to put you in the Zoe Kingdom, and although the majority are saved in the outer court, they will weep and gnash their teeth with their salvation, but not because they are in hell, but because they believed that all they had to do is love.
If Love is all a person had to do, people wouldn't not have sold their houses and been tortured trying to gain a better resurrection and we are shown the different types of resurrection, people in the outer court do not get resurrected no matter how much they love, but they have no right to complain because of their salvation.
I asked a biblical question, you asked something else.
If love is all there is, then why did Jesus come to die for you?
Jesus says that you must be born again, he didn't come to save you, he came that you might study the word enough to be born again, to raise a full grown son that you may build a house of resurrection. Those that just love, they watch their house as it burns, but they themselves are saved, but when all their works are burned, they have no resurrection.
Hanni, dear, I responded to you in another thread. I think there would be a lot of redundancy if I also responded to this post, so I'll just direct you over there: https://www.city-data.com/forum/48447011-post68.html
Hanni, dear, I responded to you in another thread. I think there would be a lot of redundancy if I also responded to this post, so I'll just direct you over there:
LOL, I am greedy in that way, I mean to try and build a treasure in heaven that maybe I will be able to keep the work that I am building and I don't know if all my good works will count for anything at all, because they don't count when you burn in the lake of fire.
You yourself are saved and I don't pretend to be anyone else, but he who stands in the court of outer darkness.
I have no problem accepting what is, and I have no problem if the design of heaven is just as we are told. That the design of the Tabernacle shows the 3 sections of heaven.
Are we in a race?
Or would you convince others that there is no race, and if there is a race, that they are greedy to be trying to build treasure in the kingdom of heaven instead of treasure in this life? It is no easy task when one gives up everything and he decides that this life is only for sacrifice, not for fame, not for fortune, but sacrifice. This is not an easy road to begin, and the person who decides to walk this road, he will not, and could not possibly think such a thing, or do such a thing from greed or for treasure.
People are motivated through shame more than anything, if they are found so guilty, they are the ones who will walk humbly.
If you teach people that there is no race, the more and more people will not run.
Revelation and all of what Jesus said concerns running a race where there is a beginning and an end as 8 steps.
You can't begin in the middle, and you can't begin in the end, you can only begin at the beginning and the whole world hasn't even begun. We are born in a 7 year covenant that people don't even know about and the idea is to overcome the covenant you were born in because the covenant of Jesus has lain broken in two since the Gentiles left the Jews.
Revelation is instruction for a race and it is extremely personal to the person who knows the fall Holy days. It is so extremely personal that it does get offensive for people to take it and try to make it something it is not.
It is a personal letter of love to anyone who comes back to the feasts of Jesus with instruction from Jesus using the fall holy days, it's traditions, it's rituals and prayers with the duties of the priest performing their tasks on JEWISH Holy days.
We see NON TRIBAL PEOPLE, THOSE GENTILES OF GALILEE OF THE NATIONS come to speak about HOLY HOLY DAY OF GOD GIVEN TO A TRIBAL PEOPLE IN THEIR TRADITION, IN THEIR CULTURE, IN THEIR HERITAGE, AND THIS IS WHAT IT IS LIKE.
Just like if we were Indians sitting around our campfire speaking in idiom concerning our own tribal ways and culture and tradition, and then a Gentile suddenly pops up and begins speaking about our own culture and traditions and heritage as if to invalidate our whole religion.
If the Christian wants nothing to do with Jewish feasts, and if they talk against the 7 feasts of Jesus and then begin speaking of the book of Revelation, I am thinking,'' How dare you speak against the high Holy days of Christ with all it's traditions and culture and heritage of a tribal people as if you can change tradition set in stone, as if you can change the meanings of our own religion that you will have no part of. How dare a person speak of Revelation while saying the 7 feasts of Jesus are fulfilled and passed away because in speaking of Revelation, you speak of tribal things, of tribal traditions, of ancient rituals, from a book that is written personally to a tribal member who knows his own religion, who knows the high holy days of the fall, who knows the temple because he is in Judaism.''
When will the Christian ever begin his walk if he doesn't know there is a set plan in stone written to each person who would pick up his cross and follow Christ in his Passover, in his Pentecost, in his feast of Tabernacles as all show a progressive walk when you begin to walk, AFTER that child is formed inside you as Christ
I remain PERPLEXED with all Christians when they will not choose to begin a walk that waits upon them.
Hebrews ~ Christ was an example that began as a Prophet who becomes a priest, then a king as all men should strive to do. We are appointed a set progressive plan to walk as he walked.
When will God say unto you,'' THIS IS MY SON IN WHOM I AM WELL PLEASED?
So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.{today I have begotten you?}
THIS WAS WAY AFTER HIS NATURAL BIRTH
6As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
7Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
10Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Warning against Drifting Away
11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
1 Peter 2:2 Like newborn infants, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation,
John 16:12 I still have much to tell you, but you cannot yet bear to hear it.
A falling away from the Torah has taken place, and there is no one who seeks death anymore while it can be found.
The race and the prize we seek should not be taken as a trivial thing, and if you are not in a race, then wake up, it is a race, and you can't run without the meat of the 7 feast days, you cannot partake of the lamb without acceptance, you can't walk in Pentecost without seeing a view to the feast of Tabernacles, and the feast of Tabernacles is something that should be taught all day and all night if one is to make it to this feast.
If we are not all teaching the feast of Tabernacles, then to what end are we teaching?
If we were to split the world into 3 pieces and name these 3 pieces, '' Judaism, Christianity, and Islam,'' all we would have to do is return to God.
If the Christian world would come back to the feast of Tabernacles, there would only be two, and if the Muslim would also come back to the feast of Tabernacles, there would only be one.
Until this happens, people are going to be raped and tortured, and they will get beheaded, blown up, over religion.
If Every Christian really loved, then let every single one of them teach the Feast of Tabernacles because this is what the eternal torment is talking about but it is not a hell that burns you forever, it is a state of being in salvation but not receiving the simple reward anyone could have received in keeping the feast of Tabernacles.
God doesn't ask much at all, he doesn't ask a very hard thing that will cost you your life as it would have in any other time. He wants his people to come back to the original birth of his son on the 15th day of Tishri, and this he wants for world peace, and the feast of Tabernacles is GUARANTEED to bring world peace because when Jesus comes in his second season as the rain, he comes to fulfill the fall high Holy days of the feast of Tabernacles, and no Christian should think otherwise.
Not only should people be praying for the rain of Sukkot, they should be begging for it. Instead of preaching the feast of Tabernacles, they preach against it and this is the end of the race.
All Of Zechariah 14 is about the coming of the Lord at the Feast of Tabernacles, the feast EVERY Christian should be teaching.
Zechariah 14
2And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. 13And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. 14And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. 15And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as
this plague.
All Nations will Worship the King
16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
AGAIN, Joel SHOWING The Feast Of Tabernacles being detailed and on which side one stands, and if he isn't keeping and teaching the 7 feasts of Christ, he IS FIGHTING JUDAH, HE IS FIGHTING JERUSALEM.
He stands for division and not Unity and God is coming to judge the whole Earth because the whole Earth has persecuted HIS PEOPLE, THE PEOPLE WHO LOVE AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.
The Nations Judged ~ The Feast Of Tabernacles Being Detailed
Joel 3
1“In those days and at that time,
when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, 2I will gather all nations
and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat.
There I will put them on trial
for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel,
because they scattered my people among the nations
and divided up my land. 3They cast lots for my people
and traded boys for prostitutes;
they sold girls for wine to drink.
4“Now what have you against me, Tyre and Sidon and all you regions of Philistia? Are you repaying me for something I have done? If you are paying me back, I will swiftly and speedily return on your own heads what you have done. 5For you took my silver and my gold and carried off my finest treasures to your temples
6You sold the people of Judah and Jerusalem to the Greeks, that you might send them far from their homeland. 7“See, I am going to rouse them out of the places to which you sold them, and I will return on your own heads what you have done. 8I will sell your sons and daughters to the people of Judah, and they will sell them to the Sabeans, a nation far away.” The Lord has spoken.
9Proclaim this among the nations:
Prepare for war!
Rouse the warriors!
Let all the fighting men draw near and attack. 10Beat your plowshares into swords
and your pruning hooks into spears.
Let the weakling say,
“I am strong!” 11Come quickly, all you nations from every side,
and assemble there.
Bring down your warriors, Lord!
12“Let the nations be roused;
let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat,
for there I will sit
to judge all the nations on every side.
13Swing the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, trample the grapes, for the winepress is full SWING THE SICKLE, COME THAT YOU MAY TRAMPLE GRAPES! and the vats overflow— so great is their wickedness!”
14Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. 15The sun and moon will be darkened,
and the stars no longer shine. 16The Lord will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem;
the earth and the heavens will tremble.
But the Lord will be a refuge for his people,
a stronghold for the people of Israel.
Blessings for God’s People
17“Then you will know that I, the Lord your God,
dwell in Zion, my holy hill.
Jerusalem will be holy;
never again will foreigners invade her.
18“In that day the mountains will drip new wine,
and the hills will flow with milk;
all the ravines of Judah will run with water.
A fountain will flow out of the Lord’s house
and will water the valley of acacias. 19But Egypt will be desolate,
Edom a desert waste,
because of violence done to the people of Judah,
in whose land they shed innocent blood. 20Judah will be inhabited forever and Jerusalem through all generations. 21Shall I leave their innocent blood unavenged? No, I will not.”
The Lord dwells in Zion!
Everywhere we are reading, we are reading about the feasts of Jesus and how Jesus is coming for the Feast of Tabernacles and this day is detailed and lain out in great detail when it will unfold at the second coming of Christ within a person.
What does it mean to walk in the Feast of Tabernacles?
It means you have become the sower in the barley, and you have walked in the wheat and been separated to God, and you have been studying to be a priest, that you have been given the smallest of seeds for the spirit and now you have become a great tree of the feast of Tabernacles where everyone finds shelter under your branches and sustenance because you have become a priest.{If you receive the rain of Sukkot that the rain falls on your seed and your seed dies to bear fruit, then your fire will be put out, your worm will die}
This is a race with a beginning and an end where a person should be warned in how Jesus left us instruction in how to walk, but if we have thrown all the instructions away in how to walk in the feast days, how will we ever come up to the feast of Tabernacles.
Are you ready for the second coming of Christ?
Then begin your walk and he will come.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 06-09-2017 at 02:27 PM..
I don't know where to post this, but the Lord has been laying it on my heart for the past few days to tell people about Jesus. This burden is so strong that I have felt sick and very desperate to reach out to others and tell them about Jesus. I asked my Pastor if there were any ministries I could do through my church to serve God, but all he said to me was that if there was anything, he'd let me know. God has been driving me to serve Him so bad that I don't think I can wait much longer for an answer from my Pastor, I am desperate here and I don't think he understands just how urgent it is to witness to the lost. People are dying and going to Hell. That is no laughing matter.
So I am going to write a post and witness to the lost on here...
Dear person much loved by the Lord,
Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners like you and me. Have you ever thought about what happens after you die? I have. It has brought me much anxiety thinking about it, because I know that this life does not last forever and one day, we all will die.
A lot of people today do not think about where they will spend eternity, and this thinking is a big mistake.
But what happens after death? The Bible is the only book that can tell us what happens to us after we die. God Himself wrote this great book; it is probably the most important book that was ever written.
Do you mind if I quote some Scriptures? Some people get offended when I quote the Bible, but I never do. Do you know why? Because I am a Christian and I believe that Jesus is my Saviour. The Bible says so. And with that being said, I will give you some Bible verses to help you and educate you.
So what happens after we die? The Bible teaches that man is a tripart being composed of spirit, soul, and a fleshly body. At death, our souls separate from our body and goes back to God to be judged by Him. God will judge everything we do in the body, whether good or bad.
But here is the bad news. You see, nobody is truly a good person. You see, only God is truly good.
Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever stolen anything? Have you ever hated anyone? If you have, then you have sinned. Killing others is also a sin, and yet you hear every day on the news that someone has murdered somebody else. Why? Because mankind are sinners and on their way to a burning Hell.
Rom 3:23 :
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Now that you know that no one is good in God's eyes, how do we then become good? How do we become vindicated before God? The Bible teaches that we need to have Jesus' righteousness but the only way to do that is to come to Him by faith:
Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
So you see that you need to believe in your heart that God raised up Jesus from the dead, and you also need to confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is the Lord.
If you die without Christ, you will spend eternity in Hell. In our modern world today, people think that Hell is a place of never-ending parties and good times. They think that all of their friends will be there. But that is far from the truth. You would think that these people have never read the Bible, or that they have never taken it seriously.
The Bible teaches that Hell is a place of never-ending fire and torment, and my dear friend, that is not very much fun (this truth has scared a lot of people). It is a place of tears and no hope. It is darkness and loneliness. You won't be able to see anyone at all. It is eternal separation from God Himself. Since God is the Source of Joy and Happiness, that means that everything apart from Him is tears, sorrow, and no happiness. And that does not sound like very much fun at all, doesn't it?
So my dear friend, for your own eternal safety, I pray that you will accept Jesus Christ into your heart today, and make Him Lord over your life.
If you have done this, you need to find a Bible-believing church where you can grow in God's Word. And you also need to find out what God wants you to do with your life, so that you may serve Him.
Blessings,
Jacqueline
I see you put a lot of effort into your op, but I must disagree with your assessment of what the bible actually teaches.
Here are the facts---- God has given the judgement to Jesus--So your teachers are saying--Jesus will condemn little mortals to eternal suffering, which is trillions x trillions x trillions, etc,etc of never ending years of suffering for 70- 90 years of unrepented sin??? The truths the bible teaches about God says they are the blind guides that do not know God or his son--God is love--Jesus is Gods image( Coll 1:15) -- the God you are teaching is a sadist maniac. Do you actually believe the Jesus you see could actually do that> NEVER.
Gods justice scales make it impossible--they are uncorruptable--perfect balance-- an eye for an eye.
so the unbalance of years involved in my first paragraph, make it an IMPOSSIBILITY for eternal suffering to be literal. It is symbolism for the VALUE of what each one lost who were put into the lake of fire( eternal destruction)--- As each new day dawns, in Gods kingdom, they miss each new dawning day eternally--it never stops. Its likened to a fire never to go out--Jesus taught--- The many who walk the broad and spacious path will be destroyed. Many who listen to teachers who do not know God--Jesus warned about that--John 15:20-21--on account of him.
I see you put a lot of effort into your op, but I must disagree with your assessment of what the bible actually teaches.
Here are the facts---- God has given the judgement to Jesus--So your teachers are saying--Jesus will condemn little mortals to eternal suffering, which is trillions x trillions x trillions, etc,etc of never ending years of suffering for 70- 90 years of unrepented sin??? The truths the bible teaches about God says they are the blind guides that do not know God or his son--God is love--Jesus is Gods image( Coll 1:15) -- the God you are teaching is a sadist maniac. Do you actually believe the Jesus you see could actually do that> NEVER.
Gods justice scales make it impossible--they are uncorruptable--perfect balance-- an eye for an eye.
so the unbalance of years involved in my first paragraph, make it an IMPOSSIBILITY for eternal suffering to be literal. It is symbolism for the VALUE of what each one lost who were put into the lake of fire( eternal destruction)--- As each new day dawns, in Gods kingdom, they miss each new dawning day eternally--it never stops. Its likened to a fire never to go out--Jesus taught--- The many who walk the broad and spacious path will be destroyed. Many who listen to teachers who do not know God--Jesus warned about that--John 15:20-21--on account of him.
I don't teach nothing like you believe I teach.
I have a view of hell like Jews, not like Christians.
I see the 3 sections of the temple, and 3 books that come out on Rosh Hashanah.
I see people put into 3 classes and all are saved.
I teach the Temple design because temple design teaches what heaven is.
Christians quote things about hell, and they are unaware of the Jewish idioms that teach of the outer court of darkness where one gnashes his teeth and weeps, he doesn't weep because he is in hell, he has salvation, he weeps because nobody told him it was a race, and there are 3 levels of resurrection.
I see all saved, and what is said of hell, is explained through Jewish idioms relating to the feast of Tabernacles.
If you have taken on Christ and studied till Christ is formed in you, you are born again, and caught up to heaven.
The barley harvest
The wheat Harvest.
The grape harvest-Fruit
These 3 you walk in as lifestyles to gain a better resurrection and you are made keeper over the household of God to give it's children meat in due season.
You cannot raise a child without the meat of the feasts, your child will die a child because you can't give unlimited power to a child. You give unlimited power to the most humble, who have raised a mature child of God.
God doesn't come to save what you are.
He comes to add, he comes that you might be born again and where everyone thinks they are born again, they are not.
I posted the thesaurus to show the synonyms for the English word 'perish' in order to show that the word 'perish' in the English translation of John 3:16 is not an improper translation of the Greek word 'apollumi.'
I used other passages in the Bible to show how 'apollumi' is used in the Bible and that it need not be taken as annihilation. Apollumi in John 3:16 refers to the lost, ruined state of those who will be eternally separated from God in the lake of fire.
And the Gospel of John was written in the first century. Not the fourth century.
Where is the first century manuscript kept?
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