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They have been so indoctrinated into Christianity by daddy and mommy that they simply cannot let it go, even though they no longer really believe it; or
They are intentionally attempting to mislead Christians from the true gospel, which is precisely what the real Jesus warned would happen.
Which of the myriad versions of "Christianity" would you be referring to? How many "true gospels" are there? You seem to think there is some unified presentation of "the Gospel" and that indicates to me that it's not the person you are addressing that has a problem.
Throughout the history of Christianity there have been people like Francis of Assisi who have cut through the bullwhoop of doctrine to the essential message. People like you have always scoffed or worse.
Did the son of man say to go tell others about Him?
No.
He said;
As the Father sent me so I send you. Go and make disciples of all the nation's baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and teach them to carry out everything I have commanded you.
That's what the Christians did with the American Indians, right?
Hanni, you said the same thing to me a week ago about not knowing where I come from and not knowing what I believe, and I told you this:
I'm a person who trusts that people are in the hands of a God who is love. Doesn't mean there aren't things to go through, and hurdles to overcome, and pain and suffering to endure. Each person is going to have to face whatever they need to face within themselves sooner or later. But I trust that if God uses that for the good of one (and I believe God does), then God uses it for the good of EVERY one, no matter how long it takes.
Loving kindness endures forever.
God is the answer and, if you believe your bible, God is love. So, yeah, love IS the answer.
Now, perhaps you'll explain what about that makes you afraid, and how it fits your idea of "Political Correctness"? And also, maybe you'll finally answer the question: Do you believe that God is love, or don't you?
There has never been much for you and I to talk about, certainly not of the bible, what would we have to talk about?
You should be proud of what you believe and you have made it pretty clear that you do not Believe the bible is the word of God, you don't believe all what God says or what Jesus says, and I cannot bend on this, I can't say some is true and some is not. We can't debate the bible because debating the bible is between two people who believe it is the word of God, and we would use scripture to prove both of our points.
I keep saying that I don't know what you believe or where you are coming from because if you don't believe that the bible is the word of God, I wouldn't know where to begin to figure out what you believe but it is not the bible. It shouldn't hurt your feelings if I say this because it is true and you know it is true.
But you are always coming from a standpoint of the bible to represent yourself as a person who can quote scripture in a conversation, but how can you play the Christian and quote scripture when you don't have faith in what was written and you actively try and prove the bible wrong, and the words of Jesus wrong, and so do you really come from a stand point of being a Christian who might come here to learn?
What you teach is a religion of political correctness and God is not politically correct, and he is never going to be politically correct.
People come in here and read what you write and they assume that you are a Christian who is representing the bible, but you should tell them right off the bat that God doesn't agree with you, and that you do not believe all the words of Jesus.
There has never been much for you and I to talk about, certainly not of the bible, what would we have to talk about?
You should be proud of what you believe and you have made it pretty clear that you do not Believe the bible is the word of God, you don't believe all what God says or what Jesus says, and I cannot bend on this, I can't say some is true and some is not. We can't debate the bible because debating the bible is between two people who believe it is the word of God, and we would use scripture to prove both of our points.
I keep saying that I don't know what you believe or where you are coming from because if you don't believe that the bible is the word of God, I wouldn't know where to begin to figure out what you believe but it is not the bible. It shouldn't hurt your feelings if I say this because it is true and you know it is true.
But you are always coming from a standpoint of the bible to represent yourself as a person who can quote scripture in a conversation, but how can you play the Christian and quote scripture when you don't have faith in what was written and you actively try and prove the bible wrong, and the words of Jesus wrong, and so do you really come from a stand point of being a Christian who might come here to learn?
What you teach is a religion of political correctness and God is not politically correct, and he is never going to be politically correct.
People come in here and read what you write and they assume that you are a Christian who is representing the bible, but you should tell them right off the bat that God doesn't agree with you, and that you do not believe all the words of Jesus.
That's all.
I have never made it a secret that part of my reason for being here is to challenge some of the beliefs within Christianity that don't make sense, particularly those which I know from experience are damaging. You haven't been paying attention if you weren't aware of that.
The take-away from your post, imo, is that, like most people who claim to be Bible-believers, you don't want anyone challenging you. You don't want to be confronted by the inconsistencies in what you believe, what you claim the bible means, and even in the bible itself... You don't even want to come right out and say you believe the bible when it says God is love, because that statement challenges your beliefs, it seems.
Have you considered that that is what is scary to you about the things I've said? Otherwise, please explain WHY it is dangerous, as you said, that I believe and share that we are all in the hands of the God who is love?
I have never made it a secret that part of my reason for being here is to challenge some of the beliefs within Christianity that don't make sense, particularly those which I know from experience are damaging. You haven't been paying attention if you weren't aware of that.
The take-away from your post, imo, is that, like most people who claim to be Bible-believers, you don't want anyone challenging you. You don't want to be confronted by the inconsistencies in what you believe, what you claim the bible means, and even in the bible itself... You don't even want to come right out and say you believe the bible when it says God is love, because that statement challenges your beliefs, it seems.
Have you considered that that is what is scary to you about the things I've said? Otherwise, please explain WHY it is dangerous, as you said, that I believe and share that we are all in the hands of the God who is love?
It is just the opposite and we can prove that right now, I will quote what the word actually says, and only one of us is going to believe it.
I encourage anyone to debate me in the bible, it is how I learn, I don't shy away, but one would expect a debate to be between two people who both believe the bible.
How can we have a fair debate if I am trying to prove the truth with truth if you don't accept the word of God is truth?
Stop being disingenuous, jimmie. We are supposed to believe Jesus, not me. "When Moses is read, the veil of ignorance is upon your heart" and you refuse to listen to your heart. The New Covenant SPECIFICALLY tells us that the Comforter sent in Christ's name will guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" but you ignore it.
2 Corinthians 3:14-17
But their minds were blinded (blind minds =ignorance: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16Nevertheless when it (the Heart) shall turn to the Lord (the Holy Spirit), the vail shall be taken away.
17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Yes, we are supposed to believe Jesus. I do, do you? *I thought you were leaving this forum.
It is just the opposite and we can prove that right now, I will quote what the word actually says, and only one of us is going to believe it.
I encourage anyone to debate me in the bible, it is how I learn, I don't shy away, but one would expect a debate to be between two people who both believe the bible.
How can we have a fair debate if I am trying to prove the truth with truth if you don't accept the word of God is truth?
It is a no go from the start.
Let me ask you a question.
Why did Jesus have to die for you?
Now, how is it fair that I ask you questions that you won't answer, but you expect me to answer yours. Why aren't you willing to tell me why believing that God is love, and that we are ALL in the hands of God, is dangerous and scary to you.
By the way, I wanted to clear something up (and this pertains to the question you've asked). I have told you many times, and have never made it a secret on the forum at large that I am no longer a Christian. So, why do you keep saying that I claim to be one?
And this brings me to another thing that makes no sense to me. Bible-"believers" sometimes - like you are doing now - make it seem that if another person is not also a Bible-"believer" (doesn't equate the bible to God or God's Word), then whatever they say on the subject of God/the bible is worthless. Doesn't this seem suspicious to you? Shouldn't what matters simply be the validity of what's being said, rather than dismissing it out of hand based on who is saying it?
Both the annihilationist position indicated in John 3:16 and the "eternal damnation" position are supported by scripture, which do you choose?
Why do you assume that John 3:16 supports the annihilationist position? The word translated as 'perish' in John 3:16 is the Greek word ἀπόλλυμι - apollumi.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish (μὴ ἀπόληται; the aorist subjunctive middle of ἀπόλλυμι - apollumi), but have eternal life.
In Luke 15:24, the parable of the lost son, apollumi is used for the son who is lost to his father and dead in that sense, but he is very much physically alive.
Luke 15:24 for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost (ἀπολωλὼς; perfect participle active of ἀπόλλυμι - apollumi) and has been found.' And they began to celebrate.
In Luke 15:4 apollumi is used for sheep which are lost but nevertheless are alive.
Luke 15:4 What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost (ἀπολέσας; aorist participle active of ἀπόλλυμι - apollumi) one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?
In Matthew 15:24 Jesus says that He was sent to the lost (apollumi) sheep of the house of Israel. The sheep of Israel, while lost, are physically alive.
Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost (ἀπολωλότα) sheep of the house of Israel."
In John 6:39 Jesus says that it is God's will that He lose (apollumi) nothing which He (the Father) has given Him.
John 6:39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose (ἀπολέσω) nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
Why therefore assume that in John 3:16 apollumi refers to annihilation instead of simply being in a lost status? John 3:16 can very easily be translated as 'shall not be lost' instead of 'shall not perish.' As indeed it is so translated in the Aramaic Bible in Plain English.
John 3:16 For God loved the world in this way: so much that he would give up his Son, The Only One, so that everyone who trusts in him shall not be lost, but he shall have eternal life.
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