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I think you need to get outside the box to see just where we are in this particular place in time and just how useless the word love is compared to lawlessness...
Love and Agape love are words used to stand against everything that is called of God or that is worshipped.
...
This sort of thing is always coming from the mouths of people who are not being tortured and who don't love the persecuted and tortured enough to stop the violence because war is not love. All those hippies standing with their peace and love signs never helped the people being killed by Pol pot or any of those other dictators like Saddam with his torture sex chambers, and when we were there killing Saddam's brother, people spoke out against war, and this is a man who would go into houses to take out little girls to rape them and if the family ever said anything, he would come and cut the child up in pieces and leave it at the door of the parents.
...
So, wait. Are you saying that you do NOT believe that God is love (agape)?
I sincerely have no idea how you can come to the conclusion that every single thing in the bible is summed up in that one message. But, I'm not going to argue it with you, because it has nothing to do with what I asked, which was about what I was taught when I was a Christian:
" If you can't believe some of the bible, you can't believe any of it, and if you can't believe the bible, you can't believe in God."
Please explain how such all-or-nothing thinking makes sense: How does it follow that if some things in the bible are not true, that means you cannot believe anything in the bible. And even if you couldn't [purely said for the sake of argument], how would that determine in your mind that God does NOT exist? Is there nothing other than the bible that indicates to you that God is real?
I never said every little thing. I said the bible, taken in entirety, can be summed up in John 3:16. Whether it's the prohets, Jesus or the apostles, the message is the same.
You reject the part about truth, even though Jesus spoke much about it. It's illogical to accept the first part of John 3:16 and reject the latter part of same.
I never said every little thing. I said the bible, taken in entirety, can be summed up in John 3:16. Whether it's the prohets, Jesus or the apostles, the message is the same.
You reject the part about truth, even though Jesus spoke much about it. It's illogical to accept the first part of John 3:16 and reject the latter part of same.
Isn't the point that the whole thing is illogical? It's how we make sense of it that shows who we are.
So, wait. Are you saying that you do NOT believe that God is love (agape)?
Clearly. Not only that, but he is saying that God gave us a set of laws that even he admits is no longer practiced or required as given, but part of it is still to be believed literally because God loves one thoroughly scattered ethnic origin the whole history of which has been rejection of those commandments.
What is the definition of insanity again? Something about believing that something that never worked before will work this time?
What sense does it make to reject the principles on which equitable law actually works?
.....It's illogical to accept the first part of John 3:16 and reject the latter part of same.
Because we don't accept your interpretation of what Jesus is reported as saying does not mean that we don't accept it. We will receive the consequences of what we do, but if it is not and cannot be a learning experience it is just ignoble and unjust revenge.
Because we don't accept your interpretation of what Jesus is reported as saying does not mean that we don't accept it. We will receive the consequences of what we do, but if it is not and cannot be a learning experience it is just ignoble and unjust revenge.
It looks to me like some people focus on personal salvation and some people focus on social issues.
I think you need to get outside the box to see just where we are in this particular place in time and just how useless the word love is compared to lawlessness.
We are in a prophesied time of lawlessness, and don't look now but Christianity is fighting against Jerusalem and Judah whether they will admit this or not, they are enemies of the commandments of God and as such, enemies and haters of the people who love the commandments of God. We have arrived at such a time of lawlessness, that everything Jesus said has come true and nobody can stand on sound doctrine because they do not stand on the law and the prophets.
When Jerusalem is attacked, look up, and when Damascus is destroyed, love will really come into play because the whole world will become one religion and anyone who will not keep the feast of Tabernacles is already in trouble.
Love and Agape love are words used to stand against everything that is called of God or that is worshipped.
Even the very elect are almost taken by this idea of love that is not love, nor can it be applied.
This sort of thing is always coming from the mouths of people who are not being tortured and who don't love the persecuted and tortured enough to stop the violence because war is not love. All those hippies standing with their peace and love signs never helped the people being killed by Pol pot or any of those other dictators like Saddam with his torture sex chambers, and when we were there killing Saddam's brother, people spoke out against war, and this is a man who would go into houses to take out little girls to rape them and if the family ever said anything, he would come and cut the child up in pieces and leave it at the door of the parents.
Saying love over and over is not going to keep your child from being raped if Good men do nothing.
We cannot afford to love people who do not love us.
We are not going to change this world by singing songs of love or showing love to our enemies, this will never work.
Whether anyone wants to admit the truth or not, people are dying daily from religion.
Whether you be an Atheist, or a Christian, everyone should make their mind up about which religion they should stand upon because this world is being ruined by religion and love is not going to stop us from dying.
For some reason, I get this.
It could be that I have just watched Cloud Atlas, and my stomach is still in my throat.
I do get that love can be a means to preventing lawlessness, and that the means by which that is achieved can be messy. As you say, we are going to die, and carry on dying. Only the one who is Unconditional Love gets to say how that happens, and if there's any trifling reason or purpose behind it.
And so the question is: is it loving, on any level, to kill lawless people?
...Sorry for digression. I expected this ongoing war/killing discussion to be in the 'if we're born spiritually dead how can we be saved' thread.
Last edited by Age-enduring; 06-07-2017 at 03:09 PM..
Because we don't accept your interpretation of what Jesus is reported as saying does not mean that we don't accept it. We will receive the consequences of what we do, but if it is not and cannot be a learning experience it is just ignoble and unjust revenge.
It is understandable that you would be desperate, terrified even, at the preposterous fate you actually think awaits any of us. Any God who would create a Hell of eternal torment for ANY reason is an evil being. Our Father is NOT an evil being and God IS love. There is no way God would present any danger to anyone for any reason. Please read 1st Corinthians 13, Galatians 5, and the Sermon on the Mount if you want to know the TRUE NATURE of our God as revealed and demonstrated by Jesus.
She is a newbie, Pleroo. I suspect she is much like you were when you were trapped in the fundamentalist ignorance of Bible idolatry. It will take time for the truth of love to penetrate such strong indoctrination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troglodyte74
I'm betting Jacqueline has read them.
The difference between her Christianity and your "Christianity" is that she has read the rest of the Bible, too. She does not cherry-pick the verses that give her a warm and fuzzy feeling, reject the rest (including some of Jesus' clearest teachings) as primitive hogwash, and flounce around proclaiming "Look at me, I'm a new kind of Christian with a new kind of Christianity, one you can feel good about even if you're an atheist!"
Stay the course, Jacqueline, as I'm sure you will.
The rest of the Bible that contradicts and corrupts Christ's Gospel of love and reconciliation was born out of fear of God by primitives. How does any 21st-century intellect think that killing an innocent creature in a so-called blood sacrifice would in any way appease God for anything????
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