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The problem with your "proof" is that it is in error on one very important point. The temple being measured was Ezekiel's, it's a spiritual temple that began to be built with the first cornerstone, Christ Jesus. Jesus said same when He said "Upon this rock" His church/temple would be built, and that rock was the revelation of the Son of G-d who is Spirit. Then we are told elsewhere that we are lively, ie. living STONES.
In addition to that, a late date is mentioned by several scholars of antiquity, such as these in an article about the affixing a date to Revelation. Peace
"Iraneaus, the main spokesmen to this date. He lived in the second century A.D., a principal "Early Church Father" who made a statement in 185 A.D. that the apostle John "saw the revelation...at the close of Domitian's reign(A.D. 81-96). (Ref: Contra Haereses 5.30.3; ANF, 1:559-60 also called in the fifth book of his work "Against Heresies".) "
And...."Some of the other Early Church Fathers give credence to a late date. Jerome, Sulpicius Severus, and Hippolytus all thought that John was exiled to Patmos under Domitian, where he saw the visions and wrote the Apocalypse. Another was Clement of Alexandria, who was an "Ante Nicene Father." In his work, "Who is the rich man that shall be saved? XLII," he gives credence to a late date too."
Hmm, you like to accuse me of not reading your posts.
From mine:
Quote:
Another statement by Irenaeus seems to indicate the earlier date also. In his fifth book, he speaks as follows concerning the Apocalypse of John and the number of the name of the Antichrist: "As these things are so, and this number is found in all the approved and ancient copies." Domitian's reign was almost in his own day, but now he speaks of the Revelation being written in ancient copies. His statement at least gives some doubt as to the "vision" being seen in 95 AD which was almost in his day, and even suggests a time somewhat removed from his own day for him to consider the copies available to him as ancient.
But you've spiritualized Revelation by saying the temple being measured was Ezekiel's. Jews didn't spiritualize either of the two temples. They were concrete. John of Patmos was a Jew. Or if you like, John the Disciple as Mike mistakenly believes, who would have been perhaps 90+ years old or so after living a young, hard life as a fisherman on a sea frequented by storms. He would hardly have been able to visit many kings, nations, and many peoples to "prophesy." But an earlier date would have made him about 60 and much better able to get around.
But you've spiritualized Revelation by saying the temple being measured was Ezekiel's. Jews didn't spiritualize either of the two temples. They were concrete. John of Patmos was a Jew. Or if you like, John the Disciple as Mike mistakenly believes, who would have been perhaps 90+ years old or so after living a young, hard life as a fisherman on a sea frequented by storms. He would hardly have been able to visit many kings, nations, and many peoples to "prophesy." But an earlier date would have made him about 60 and much better able to get around.
Tell me; did the prophets of the book have to travel to all those places or just say what the Lord said and add it to scripture, which then went out to all those places? If you don't know, read what happened in Jeremiah's day, when G-d added a word.
John spiritualized it himself when he said it was the revelation of Jesus Christ (means to unveil or uncover). Where IS Jesus Christ right now? He also said his revelation took place in the temple. Know ye not ye are the temple of the HG? Unless of course, you don't believe John's testimony either. Peace
Tell me; did the prophets of the book have to travel to all those places or just say what the Lord said and add it to scripture, which then went out to all those places? If you don't know, read what happened in Jeremiah's day, when G-d added a word.
John spiritualized it himself when he said it was the revelation of Jesus Christ (means to unveil or uncover). Where IS Jesus Christ right now? He also said his revelation took place in the temple. Know ye not ye are the temple of the HG? Unless of course, you don't believe John's testimony either. Peace
Which Jeremiah are you talking about--the late date Jeremiah that is longer than the "original" Jeremiah found with the Dead Sea Scrolls?
Quote:
Among the Qumran texts was a scroll of Jeremiah. This is very significant because the LXX version of Jeremiah is seven chapters shorter than the Masoretic, and what remains is in a different order! The Dead Sea Scrolls backs up the LXX version, not our Masoretic Bibles.
We western Christians may worry about that, but eastern Christians won't. Most Orthodox Christians use the LXX for their Old Testament.
It should be noted that pseudopigraphal writings, and revisions were a common practice in ancient times. Their view of inspiration was also very different. The MT editor added headings to prophecies, repeated sections, added new verses and sections, new details, new arrangements, and clarification of unclear passages. This most likely done after the exile.
Even the Jeremiah you read shows God Himself not that concerned over His written "word." Read it carefully and you will discover that Jeremiah's first scroll was burned by the King he presented it to. Then God told Jeremiah to write a SECOND scroll and add material to it -- meaning God must have thought of a few things He left out of the first. Then when Jeremiah finished it, God told him to throw it in the sea.
Either Jeremiah did not feel obligated to obey God, or he wrote a third scroll as we obviously have one in our possession. Which is the "inspired, infallible, and inerrant" text that you believe in? Scroll # 1, 2, or 3, in the Masoretic text, or the "oldest" version found in the LXX version?
Quote:
Most Scholars saw the LXX as inferior to the Hebrew Bible called the Masoretic Text (MT). With the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, this all changed. Ancient Hebrew scrolls were found that follow the LXX, not the Masoretic Text. The DSS showed that the LXX had an underlying Hebrew Text that was different from the MT.
Now Scholars think the LXX has important readings that are superior to the MT. The LXX is now very important in textual criticism of the Hebrew Bible.
Without a scholarly education, you haven't a clue about what you are really reading. So I suppose you pick one out of thin air and declare it to be "god-breathed."
I can assure you conservative Christian put a lot more thinking into what they believe than any fundie skeptic does.
Ah, admission that there are no true christians.
Proverbs 3:5-7New International Version (NIV)
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[a]
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[a]
Ah and example that you can't understand simple English.
[quote]Proverbs 3:5-7New International Version (NIV)
Quote:
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[a]
One has to understand what God is saying to trust it. In many cases that requires serious thinking about it.
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[a]
Quote:
Originally Posted by omega2xx
One has to understand what God is saying to trust it. In many cases that requires serious thinking about it.
So another pile of steeling horse poop? Thought god wrote everything you need to know on your heart, no?
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[a]
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
lol
It's the prime directive of xianity, stay stupid and do what daddy tells you to do.
It's the prime directive of xianity, stay stupid and do what daddy tells you to do.
You're back. Any response to our previous discussion, specifically the last bit?...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
I'm totally not buying that you've never done anything stupid in your life, and never made a mistake. And surely, you have learned and grown.
You know, I've often enjoyed your one-liner posts. They can be thought-provoking and, sometimes, funny. But I've always wondered if you were interested in dialoguing with people. I'm definitely getting the sense you aren't, but I guess time will tell.
So, to answer your questions:
I don't know what happens after we physically die, because it hasn't happened to me yet.
I'm living to experience life, and hopefully to learn and grow. That's how I see it. What about you?
What about you ... As you asked me, what is your purpose/goal in how you are living your life?
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Any response to our previous discussion, specifically the last bit?...
