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He's claiming that there is a contradiction because Matthew 16:17 says that flesh (man) didn't reveal to Peter that Jesus was the Messiah, but that God (the Father) had revealed it to him while John 1:40-41 says that Andrew, Peter's brother revealed to him that Jesus was the Messiah.
This is not a contradiction. While Andrew told Peter that they had found the Messiah, that doesn't mean that Peter necessarily believed that Jesus was the Messiah at that time. It wasn't until Peter got to know Jesus better that he came to the realization that Jesus was the Messiah. And that had been revealed to him by the Father.
There's no reason to take the overly literal and shallow view of the two verses as the OP is doing.
Quote:
“This is not a contradiction”……”that doesn't mean that Peter necessarily believed that Jesus was the Messiah at that time.”
“There's no reason to take the overly literal and shallow view of the two verses as the OP is doing.”
RESPONSE: If the Gospels are really inspired, one should expect that God’s view
isn’t the shallow one. Perhaps you view divine utterances differently.
I’m using the plain meaning of words as supposedly inspired by God. The plain meaning of words tells us in John 1 that Andrew told Peter before Peter even became an Apostle that Jesus was the Messiah as reported later in Matthew’s gospel.
RESPONSE: If the Gospels are really inspired, one should expect that God’s view
isn’t the shallow one. Perhaps you view divine utterances differently.
I’m using the plain meaning of words as supposedly inspired by God. The plain meaning of words tells us in John 1 that Andrew told Peter before Peter even became an Apostle that Jesus was the Messiah as reported later in Matthew’s gospel.
Mightyqueen,can you share some information about Christianity that those 'fundamentalists' are ignorant about?
Why do you think fundamentalists are "ignorant"? That's not what I said in the post you quoted, so I find that an odd word choice.
What I said in the post you quoted was that I suspect that people who choose to adhere to a fundamentalist mindset find comfort and safety in having a defined set of rules. I would think they are not risk-takers.
Why do you think fundamentalists are "ignorant"? That's not what I said in the post you quoted, so I find that an odd word choice.
What I said in the post you quoted was that I suspect that people who choose to adhere to a fundamentalist mindset find comfort and safety in having a defined set of rules. I would think they are not risk-takers.
If you can’t think for yourself and trust your inner guide then I guess you need someone or something to think for you
Then your earlier comment does not make a whole lot of sense. The 'fundamentalists' believe what the Bible teaches Jesus said, so where is the contradiction?
The contradiction comes when the fundamentalist makes exceptions to what Jesus said because their pull toward the need to adhere to the rules wins over making decisions based on loving God and one's neighbors.
Jesus said love your neighbors, love one another, and fundamentalists say, "OK--but we know Jesus didn't really mean <insert people you don't like> because Chapter 1, 2, 3 Verse XYZ says thus and so." The fear of considering that Chapter 1 Verse X might have just been the cultural norms of a certain time and place instead of the Actual Literal Word of God prevents what Jesus said to do to be fully practiced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Sure, fundamentalists preach compassion as it is what Jesus also taught.
A lot of people, including myself, would argue that this is not a true statement. Fundamentalists appear to practice conditional compassion.
Back in the 70s, at teenage Christian retreats and youth group meetings, there was a popular song with the chorus, "And they'll know we are Christians by our love, by our love, and they'll know we are Christians by our love.
Fundamentalist Christians are more known for being NOT loving than they are for being loving, and in a nutshell, that's pretty much the problem.
No matter if you think that perception is wrong, it is the perception, and it is a problem. The only people to whom that is not the perception are the fundamentalists themselves.
The contradiction comes when the fundamentalist makes exceptions to what Jesus said because their pull toward the need to adhere to the rules wins over making decisions based on loving God and one's neighbors.
Jesus said love your neighbors, love one another, and fundamentalists say, "OK--but we know Jesus didn't really mean <insert people you don't like> because Chapter 1, 2, 3 Verse XYZ says thus and so." The fear of considering that Chapter 1 Verse X might have just been the cultural norms of a certain time and place instead of the Actual Literal Word of God prevents what Jesus said to do to be fully practiced.
A lot of people, including myself, would argue that this is not a true statement. Fundamentalists appear to practice conditional compassion.
Back in the 70s, at teenage Christian retreats and youth group meetings, there was a popular song with the chorus, "And they'll know we are Christians by our love, by our love, and they'll know we are Christians by our love.
Fundamentalist Christians are more known for being NOT loving than they are for being loving, and in a nutshell, that's pretty much the problem.
No matter if you think that perception is wrong, it is the perception, and it is a problem. The only people to whom that is not the perception are the fundamentalists themselves.
This can be a problem for most groups, as they love those who agree with them and don't love those who do not?
This can be a problem for most groups, as they love those who agree with them and don't love those who do not?
That's the whole point of what Jesus was teaching, wasn't it? Cross the lines and get to know the people who aren't just like you. Find out what you have in common. Sometimes it might be God experienced in a different way from what you know, from what you were told God is.
RESPONSE: If the Gospels are really inspired, one should expect that God’s view
isn’t the shallow one. Perhaps you view divine utterances differently.
I’m using the plain meaning of words as supposedly inspired by God. The plain meaning of words tells us in John 1 that Andrew told Peter before Peter even became an Apostle that Jesus was the Messiah as reported later in Matthew’s gospel.
Yes, and it isn't until later with Jesus that you find Jesus telling Peter that G-D revealed it unto him, which if you want to take the plain literal words, that also means Andrew was obviously incapable of revealing a man of Spirit to a flesh man, which is what Jesus said (and literally what happens). NO MAN can reveal Him to anyone else, we can only tell you of our experience with the living G-d. Peace
Why do you think fundamentalists are "ignorant"? That's not what I said in the post you quoted, so I find that an odd word choice.
What I said in the post you quoted was that I suspect that people who choose to adhere to a fundamentalist mindset find comfort and safety in having a defined set of rules. I would think they are not risk-takers.
Nothing could be further from the truth. It takes great fearlessness (risk taking) to completely trust and believe in the living G-d as defined in scripture, and put His word to the test, and then walk in it. It's not for the doubters or the mockers and scorners, who actually DO have risk taking issues, because they've let their own minds and the minds of others decide for them what is, and is not, of G-d's Spirit, instead of experiencing it for themselves. Peace
Nothing could be further from the truth. It takes great fearlessness (risk taking) to completely trust and believe in the living G-d as defined in scripture, and put His word to the test, and then walk in it. It's not for the doubters or the mockers and scorners, who actually DO have risk taking issues, because they've let their own minds and the minds of others decide for them what is, and is not, of G-d's Spirit, instead of experiencing it for themselves. Peace
It also takes great fearless risk taking to go with what you believe God is saying that is contrary to what you always believed to be true as a fundamentalist, knowing you will be rejected, mocked called an heretic and never of the faith in the first place. So what is your point ?
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