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I gave you a very good and logical reason why the virgin birth is not mentioned in the epistles. It appears that you intend to drone on and on about this in your usual manner. You'll have to do it without me.
No, i think it is perfectly reasonable to ask why such an important doctrine to bible believing christians is not in the epistles. You have not given a reasonable answer and are resorting to your usual "believe what i say or get over it".
And i was trying to make the point to you that do you not think that is odd with the virgin birth being so important, that there is no mention of it in the epistles?.
yes it is God dwelled with man.. JOHN says and the WORD became flesh and dwelled among us.. that is all you need to know to know by prophesying his mom was a virgin.. not counting the even older prophecy to the daughters of eve's Oath .. that Even Elizabeth the high priest's wife know what it means when Mary is with Child. of Course she was a Virgin to have the promised son.. . that Child was the promised child of a virgin. it was implied ages before in and out of Hebrew culture . and in the old testament that the4 son of man would be born from a virgin.. . and proved and implied and prophesy was all that is need to prove it.
..only to a liberal lefty and other militant Atheists.. does a virgin not mean virgin and does the truth have to be repeated like what 50 times in 50 language that can not be farted with by any lefty's and other non believers current or historical.
that is a criteria that is not expected of any other documents or historical figures.. which makes your repeated accusation of Both Mary, all witnesses , angels , Joseph, and all writers/ recorders of Mary and Joseph's own words including Josephus , that make you un-reason-able !
The fundamentalist church is built on a virgin birth. According to the fundamentalist church if Christ was not born a virgin then he could not be the savior of the world born in original sin, because he would be born in original sin too. So Mike 555, don't be so arrogant and condescending towards me because i asked a valid reasonable question, which you have come nowhere near close to giving me a reasonable response.
yes it is God dwelled with man.. JOHN says and the WORD became flesh and dwelled among us.. that is all you need to know to know by prophesying his mom was a virgin.. not counting the even older prophecy to the daughters of eve's Oath .. that Even Elizabeth the high priest's wife know what it means when Mary is with Child. of Course she was a Virgin to have the promised son.. . that Child was the promised child of a virgin. it was implied ages before in and out of Hebrew culture . and in the old testament that the4 son of man would be born from a virgin.. . and proved and implied and prophesy was all that is need to prove it.
..only to a liberal lefty and other militant Atheists.. does a virgin not mean virgin and does the truth have to be repeated like what 50 times in 50 language that can not be farted with by any lefty's and other non believers current or historical.
that is a criteria that is not expected of any other documents or historical figures.. which makes your repeated accusation of Both Mary, all witnesses , angels , Joseph, and all writers/ recorders of Mary and Joseph's own words including Josephus , that make you un-reason-able !
Can you explain why something vitally important to the fundamentalist faith is no existent in any of the epistles. I am not interested in your anti liberal militant atheist rants. Just a straight forward answer would be fine.
Can you explain why something vitally important to the fundamentalist faith is no existent in any of the epistles. I am not interested in your anti liberal militant atheist rants. Just a straightforward answer would be fine.
I already did.. implied is good enough when the story has been told and told !! and held as truth for thousands of years by many cultures .. he was the SON who was promised .. the Word became flesh. the creator became flesh.. . that implies all the other prophesy. it is a packaged deal both implied and impressed as one thought... where it says is God that truth is implied and proved by Jesus life and his actions and his overcoming death. it is a package of truth you can not separate the parts of it because they are so old.
only to the tiny minds that have no truth, and will recognize no truth , will hold no truths, is that not enough proof.
the issue is with your mind.. not understanding prophesy and what I AM means.. because every time they pick up stones to stone him it is because he is saying "IAM". He was the promised Child who proved it . the promised child would be born of a virgin and in a line of line of females Called " the daughters of EVE" or "daughters of the Oath of Eve" . which Mary and Elizabeth and Bathsheba and Queen of sheba , YolkiNal , Lady Coftachiqui and Queen AliQuippa , Summers EVE, Ollie/ Ali nionee , ... Probably Helen and a few more I can find. and throw in a few zillion Egyptians women and probably Joseph's wife and mother of Ephriam and Manassa. were all Na-khepa..or EVE's , daughter of the oath of EVE . all have to some degree prophetic gifts as
" seers " and prophetesses, or other such words like oracles and meaning spiritually gifted with spiritual sight .. probably since EVE .!
now what men have done to them and used them or their words or vision is not their fault.
that could not be helped any more than Menes/MN/ Narmer could have been stopped in the first place .. or for that matter you and the others here can be stopped from doing what you do .
Rev 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
only God can change man .... we can't . you can't either. we are made perfect in his love only.. and able to hold to his truth by his love only..
The fundamentalist church is built on a virgin birth. According to the fundamentalist church if Christ was not born a virgin then he could not be the savior of the world born in original sin, because he would be born in original sin too. So Mike 555, don't be so arrogant and condescending towards me because i asked a valid reasonable question, which you have come nowhere near close to giving me a reasonable response.
..only to a liberal lefty and other militant Atheists.. does a virgin not mean virgin and does the truth have to be repeated like what 50 times in 50 language that can not be farted with by any lefty's and other non believers current or historical.
that is a criteria that is not expected of any other documents or historical figures.. which makes your repeated accusation of Both Mary, all witnesses , angels , Joseph, and all writers/ recorders of Mary and Joseph's own words including Josephus , that make you un-reason-able !
God dwells within man.
No, it's not the "truth" but rather your belief. Big difference.
Now how can you put the words 'witness' & 'Josephus' in the same sentence with a straight face? So much practice that you've convinced yourself?
Josephus wasn't even alive at the time. Not to forget the fact that it's generally considered amongst scholars that much of his writings were not written in his style & were obvious later additions.
Don't you realize that the church destroyed anything that contradicted their particular version of doctrine & history? That they not only changed the Bible as they saw fit is not bad enough but they blatantly forged writings in support of their position, that they attributed to historians. Tacitus comes to mind (& much of what he actually wrote himself was copied from Josephus)
But that's perfectly acceptable, admirable even, if we're to believe Saul/Paul who justifies his 'falsehoods' because they 'further Gods glory.' (Rom 3:7)
Iow, the ends justify the means. Do you really think that Jesus agrees?
Which men I hear you ask? The churchs supreme authority's like immoral grubs like Emperor Justinian, the 'Anti-Popes' who ordered mass slaughter 'in Gods name' or my personal favourite, Pope Leo X who chortled 'How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us.'
Last edited by Legion777; 12-24-2017 at 05:58 PM..
YOU are the virgin, and if you don't become pregnant by some great miracle, then you wont be born again at all. All the virgins will come up and present themselves to the door of the chamber to consummate, but half don't get in, go figure.
Wonder why half the supposed virgins of Christ aren't able to open the door to the bridal chamber? Half are turned away, imagine that, a woman speaking of her marriage days over and over, and then when the day comes for the consummation, she is not able to enter in.
The virgin birth is just showing us what must take place in our own lives. You either raise a full grown mature son with the milk and meat of the word or you don't. You have been made keeper over the household of God to give it's children meat in due season, and so will you starve your own beloved child? Will the bridegroom come with the shout of a horn collecting his bride and consummating a marriage with a bride who has a 2 year old child that she has been feeding milk to for 30 years? Or will the bridegroom come to a righteous mother who loves her son?
You are the mother, and woe are all those with children and weaning children in those days, what days?
If the bridegroom comes to find his bride in the bed of another and then he looks over and sees his abused, neglected son, what will he say after he has killed the child?
RESPONSE: Then please present a "scholar's" reference predating Paul’s 1 Corinthians 15:3-7 which claims that Jesus death was a “substitutionary atonement.” Or is this an assertion without evidence?
RESPONSE: Habermus presents NO documentation to support his claim. Paul’s 1 Corinthians was written at least 20 years after the event to people who lived 800 miles from the event. There is no evidence supporting that claim. None of the four gospel writers or anyone else report the same thing
(quote)'Do critical scholars agree on the date of this pre-Pauline creed? Even radical scholars like Gerd Lüdemann think that “the elements in the tradition are to be dated to the first two years after the crucifixion . . . no later than three years after the death of Jesus.” Similarly, Michael Goulder contends that Paul’s testimony about the resurrection appearances “goes back at least to what Paul was taught when he was converted, a couple of years after the crucifixion.” (/quote)
RESPONSE: Really? Thank you for your information from what you admit is a “radical scholar.” Most people prefer conventional ones. Why do you think no Evangelist made any mention of it? And keep Paul’s own word in mind. And Paul admits in Galations 11 “11 For I want you to know, brothers and sisters,[d] that the gospel that was proclaimed by me is not of human origin; 12 for I did not receive it from a human source, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.” So Paul himself states that what he is claiming did not come from any human source. Instead it came from one of his many revelations or visions. Evidently your “radical scholars” overlooked that contradiction.
You ARE disingenuous. You asked for scholarly comments on 1 Corinthians 15:3-7 as a pre-Pauline creed, and I gave them to you. And you ignore it. You play games.
RESPONSE: No. I didn't ask for "comments." I asked for evidence. You couldn't provide any.
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