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Jer 1:15 For behold, I am calling all the tribes of the kingdoms of the north, declares the LORD, and they shall come, and every one shall set his throne at the entrance of the gates of Jerusalem, against all its walls all around and against all the cities of Judah.
Jer 1:16 And I will declare my judgments against them, for all their evil in forsaking me. They have made offerings to other gods and worshiped the works of their own hands.
Jer 1:17 But you, dress yourself for work; arise, and say to them everything that I command you. Do not be dismayed by them, lest I dismay you before them.
Jer 1:18 And I, behold, I make you this day a fortified city, an iron pillar, and bronze walls, against the whole land, against the kings of Judah, its officials, its priests, and the people of the land.
Jer 1:19 They will fight against you, but they shall not prevail against you, for I am with you, declares the LORD, to deliver you.”
Jer 5:9 Shall I not punish them for these things? declares the LORD; and shall I not avenge myself on a nation such as this?
Jer 5:10 “Go up through her vine rows and destroy, but make not a full end; strip away her branches, for they are not the LORD's.
Jer 5:11 For the house of Israel and the house of Judah have been utterly treacherous to me, declares the LORD.
Jer 5:12 They have spoken falsely of the LORD and have said, ‘He will do nothing; no disaster will come upon us, nor shall we see sword or famine.
Jer 5:13 The prophets will become wind; the word is not in them. Thus shall it be done to them!’”
Jer 5:20 Declare this in the house of Jacob; proclaim it in Judah:
Jer 5:21 “Hear this, O foolish and senseless people, who have eyes, but see not, who have ears, but hear not.
Jer 5:22 Do you not fear me? declares the LORD. Do you not tremble before me? I placed the sand as the boundary for the sea, a perpetual barrier that it cannot pass; though the waves toss, they cannot prevail; though they roar, they cannot pass over it.
Jer 5:23 But this people has a stubborn and rebellious heart; they have turned aside and gone away.
Jer 5:24 They do not say in their hearts, ‘Let us fear the LORD our God, who gives the rain in its season, the autumn rain and the spring rain, and keeps for us the weeks appointed for the harvest.’
Jer 5:27 Like a cage full of birds, their houses are full of deceit; therefore they have become great and rich;
Jer 5:28 they have grown fat and sleek. They know no bounds in deeds of evil; they judge not with justice the cause of the fatherless, to make it prosper, and they do not defend the rights of the needy.
Jer 5:29 Shall I not punish them for these things? declares the LORD, and shall I not avenge myself on a nation such as this?”
Jer 5:30 An appalling and horrible thing has happened in the land: Jer 5:31 the prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule at their direction; my people love to have it so, but what will you do when the end comes?
Jer 6:6 For thus says the LORD of hosts: “Cut down her trees; cast up a siege mound against Jerusalem. This is the city that must be punished; there is nothing but oppression within her.
Jer 6:7 As a well keeps its water fresh, so she keeps fresh her evil; violence and destruction are heard within her; sickness and wounds are ever before me.
Jer 6:13 “For from the least to the greatest of them, everyone is greedy for unjust gain; and from prophet to priest, everyone deals falsely
Jer 7:21 Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: “Add your burnt offerings to your sacrifices, and eat the flesh.
Jer 7:22 For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.
Jer 7:23 But this command I gave them: ‘Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people. And walk in all the way that I command you, that it may be well with you.’
Jer 7:24 But they did not obey or incline their ear, but walked in their own counsels and the stubbornness of their evil hearts, and went backward and not forward.
What is you point about Jeremiah?
It is history, but what is the thing you want us to notice? WHAT IN THE WORLD DOES ANY OF THIS HAVE TO DO WITH JUDAH NOW OR EVEN IN JESUS DAY? They are CERTAINLY not the same people now as when they went into exile. You can't even find another incident to even make a parallel of these people who lost their lands, who lost their houses, and became slaves, BUT WAIT
HOW DID THEY FREE THEMSELVES, AND HOW DID THEY TALK A FORIEGN KING TO HONOR THEM SO MUCH AS THE WAY THEY WERE SO HONORED? NO OTHER PEOPLE LOST EVERYTHING TO THEN RETAIN IT ALL BACK WITH THE SUPPORT OF A FORIEGN KING.
The House of Judah began following after the pagan house of Israel and God steps in to punish them instead of wiping them out like he did with the kingdom of Ephraim. Their judgment came because they were not keeping the Torah. The house of Israel had called the Torah a strange thing and became Gentiles and many tried to corrupt Jews.
The House of Judah looked nothing like they did before the Babylonian exile, God punished them and brought them back in great strength after he made sure that they would never involve themselves with paganism again.
The Covenant Remembered ~ Jeremiah 59For thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even deal with thee as thou hast done, which hast despised the oath in breaking the covenant. 60Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant.61Then thou shalt remember thy ways, and be ashamed, when thou shalt receive thy sisters, thine elder and thy younger: and I will give them unto thee for daughters, but not by thy covenant.62And I will establish my covenant with thee; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: 63That thou mayest remember, and be confounded, and never open thy mouth any more because of thy shame, when I am pacified toward thee for all that thou hast done, saith the Lord GOD.
The greatest disappointment of all is that the Jew knows he needs to follow and love the Torah, and he has read and seen, and witnessed what God does when his people don't follow his Torah. Judah almost fell like Israel had fallen, but they rose again and God strengthened them and now they would never follow the ways of any pagan Gods, and this is disappointing because the idea is for the Gentile Christian to become one with the Jew, and the Jew knows he can't accept the things Christians do.
Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only.
2 Kings 19Also Judah kept not the commandments of the LORD their God, but walked in the statutes of Israel which they made. 20And the LORD rejected all the seed of Israel, and afflicted them, and delivered them into the hand of spoilers, until he had cast them out of his sight. 21For he rent Israel from the house of David; and they made Jeroboam the son of Nebat king: and Jeroboam drave Israel from following the LORD, and made them sin a great sin. 22For the children of Israel walked in all the sins of Jeroboam which he did; they departed not from them; 23Until the LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.
Hanni, my point is you say the temple of the lord, and try to make things out of the feasts, sabbaths etc which I believe were Israel taking spiritual things given to prophets and corrupting it into a religion, taking pagan animal sacrifices and making it into the point of Gods revelation to them.
You think it’s all about the Jews but God says all Israel have told lies, and gone astray, it is not about going back to the beliefs or nations that used to exist, or a worship system that God says corrupted his message, it needs to be resurrected in the spirit through Christ .....you realise that the system of Christianity has done the same thing but I believe you are looking in the wrong direction, looking at the physical symbols in their corrupt form
Hanni, my point is you say the temple of the lord, and try to make things out of the feasts, sabbaths etc which I believe were Israel taking spiritual things given to prophets and corrupting it into a religion, taking pagan animal sacrifices and making it into the point of Gods revelation to them.
You think it’s all about the Jews but God says all Israel have told lies, and gone astray, it is not about going back to the beliefs or nations that used to exist, or a worship system that God says corrupted his message, it needs to be resurrected in the spirit through Christ .....you realise that the system of Christianity has done the same thing but I believe you are looking in the wrong direction, looking at the physical symbols in their corrupt form
JMO
That corruption comes from them not following the commandments of God, that corruption comes from Israel building shrines on every holy hill,'' NOT JUDAH.'' Israel called the Torah a strange thing and their worship system almost brought Judah down, but it didn't. They were refined.
Hosea 1 ~ God has never given up on Judah, and through the loss of the ten tribes, Gentiles are added to the nation. 6And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away. 7But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
When Jesus came, he came offering a betrothal to the gentile, not the Jew. Jesus came adding to the nation already saved.
Unto Us a Child is Born
1Nevertheless the dimness shall not be such as was in her{ HER/SAMARIA/Ephraim} vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali{Land of Joseph}, and afterward did more grievously afflict her{Northern Israel} by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations. 2The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.{ The land of the ten tribes} 3Thou hast multiplied the nation, and not increased the joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, and as men rejoice when they divide the spoil.
John the Baptist was sent out to the Northern Kingdom the same as Elijah and neither of them have anything to do with Judah besides bringing the Gentile TO Judah.
John was seen as the friend of the bridegroom who went out into Joseph's land, into Galilee of the Gentiles in the kingdom of Ephraim and he was preparing Gentiles to accept a betrothal to a Jew.
Jesus didn't come offering a betrothal to Jews, Jesus came ADDING to the nation, but that all ended when the Gentiles separated from the Jews 100 years after Jesus died. Thou hast multiplied the nation, A Jew doesn't need a betrothal to be redeemed into Israel, a Jew doesn't need to marry a Jew to be considered a Jew.
The very most important thing is learning the difference between Israel and Judah because it does take some doing, it takes a lot of study, most every Christian will quote the sins of Israel and put them on Judah's head. Judah was guilty, but not like Israel.....Two nations living side by side for 300 years, one nation rejected the Torah, they rejected God's worship system and laws, and the other followed God's laws and accepted his holy days............Unfortunately, the EVIL kingdom bears the name,'' Israel,'' and so when anyone sees the name,'' Israel,'' they always think it is speaking of Jews.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 03-19-2018 at 06:16 PM..
The Jew's worship system was only corrupt when they were following Israel's paganism. They were refined SPECIFICALLY for their involvement with Paganism.
Ten tribes had their entire kingdom ended for nothing more than keeping pagan holy days, and those ten tribes kept the same ancient pagan holy days that Christians keep today.
Jeroboam's Idolatry ~ Jeroboam was the first king of Israel and God ENDED Israel for these reasons.
1 Kings
25Then Jeroboam built Shechem in the hill country of Ephraim, and lived there. And he went out from there and built Penuel. 26Jeroboamsaidin his heart,"Nowthe kingdomwill returnto the houseof David.27"If this people go up to offer sacrifices in the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, then the heart of this people will return to their lord, even to Rehoboam king of Judah; and they will kill me and return to Rehoboam king of Judah."…
Jeroboam didn't want to lose his kingdom and so he and his people rejected Jerusalem and built their own pagan hills and shrine until a great king came and broke down all their alters.
Constantine did Exactly what Jeroboam did for the EXACT same reason.
All God wants is for everyone to have the same worship system, that's all. God didn't invent evil holy days appointed for his son to visit. God appointed and ordained HIS holy days, HIS FEASTS and it doesn't matter if you keep all the laws of the feasts, all you have to do is accept them, and then stop keeping pagan feasts.
Isaiah 56 ~ THE GREATEST OVERWHELMING PROMISE EVER GAVE A GENTILE, SHOUT IN JOY, BE OF GOOD CHEER! GOD'S PROMISE IS EVERLASTING, TAKE HOLD OF HIS COVENANT AND HE PROMISES YOU SUCH GREAT AND MIGHTY THINGS FOR JUST KEEPING WHAT PLEASES HIM. Salvation for All Nations 1Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. 2Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. 3Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. 4For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. 6Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. 8The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.
There is ONLY ONE WAY to take hold of God's covenant and you can believe the promise of God. God will ACTUALLY give you a name better than sons or daughters, God WILL EVEN GATHER YOU WITH HIS PEOPLE, EVEN YOU!
This is the great and mighty promise of God, what other promise is greater than this promise?
Jer 1:15 For behold, I am calling all the tribes of the kingdoms of the north, declares the LORD, and they shall come, and every one shall set his throne at the entrance of the gates of Jerusalem, against all its walls all around and against all the cities of Judah.
Jer 1:16 And I will declare my judgments against them, for all their evil in forsaking me. They have made offerings to other gods and worshiped the works of their own hands.
Jer 1:17 But you, dress yourself for work; arise, and say to them everything that I command you. Do not be dismayed by them, lest I dismay you before them.
Jer 1:18 And I, behold, I make you this day a fortified city, an iron pillar, and bronze walls, against the whole land, against the kings of Judah, its officials, its priests, and the people of the land.
Jer 1:19 They will fight against you, but they shall not prevail against you, for I am with you, declares the LORD, to deliver you.â€
Jer 5:9 Shall I not punish them for these things? declares the LORD; and shall I not avenge myself on a nation such as this?
Jer 5:10 “Go up through her vine rows and destroy, but make not a full end; strip away her branches, for they are not the LORD's.
Jer 5:11 For the house of Israel and the house of Judah have been utterly treacherous to me, declares the LORD.
Jer 5:12 They have spoken falsely of the LORD and have said, ‘He will do nothing; no disaster will come upon us, nor shall we see sword or famine.
Jer 5:13 The prophets will become wind; the word is not in them. Thus shall it be done to them!’â€
Jer 5:20 Declare this in the house of Jacob; proclaim it in Judah:
Jer 5:21 “Hear this, O foolish and senseless people, who have eyes, but see not, who have ears, but hear not.
Jer 5:22 Do you not fear me? declares the LORD. Do you not tremble before me? I placed the sand as the boundary for the sea, a perpetual barrier that it cannot pass; though the waves toss, they cannot prevail; though they roar, they cannot pass over it.
Jer 5:23 But this people has a stubborn and rebellious heart; they have turned aside and gone away.
Jer 5:24 They do not say in their hearts, ‘Let us fear the LORD our God, who gives the rain in its season, the autumn rain and the spring rain, and keeps for us the weeks appointed for the harvest.’
Jer 5:27 Like a cage full of birds, their houses are full of deceit; therefore they have become great and rich;
Jer 5:28 they have grown fat and sleek. They know no bounds in deeds of evil; they judge not with justice the cause of the fatherless, to make it prosper, and they do not defend the rights of the needy.
Jer 5:29 Shall I not punish them for these things? declares the LORD, and shall I not avenge myself on a nation such as this?â€
Jer 5:30 An appalling and horrible thing has happened in the land: Jer 5:31 the prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule at their direction; my people love to have it so, but what will you do when the end comes?
Jer 6:6 For thus says the LORD of hosts: “Cut down her trees; cast up a siege mound against Jerusalem. This is the city that must be punished; there is nothing but oppression within her.
Jer 6:7 As a well keeps its water fresh, so she keeps fresh her evil; violence and destruction are heard within her; sickness and wounds are ever before me.
Jer 6:13 “For from the least to the greatest of them, everyone is greedy for unjust gain; and from prophet to priest, everyone deals falsely
Jer 7:21 Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: “Add your burnt offerings to your sacrifices, and eat the flesh.
Jer 7:22 For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.
Jer 7:23 But this command I gave them: ‘Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people. And walk in all the way that I command you, that it may be well with you.’
Jer 7:24 But they did not obey or incline their ear, but walked in their own counsels and the stubbornness of their evil hearts, and went backward and not forward.
Some of us can't, though I have no idea why. The idea that Christians who leave the faith were never 'real' to begin with seems to me a variation of "no true Scotsman."
Hanni, my point is you say the temple of the lord, and try to make things out of the feasts, sabbaths etc which I believe were Israel taking spiritual things given to prophets and corrupting it into a religion, taking pagan animal sacrifices and making it into the point of Gods revelation to them.
You think it’s all about the Jews but God says all Israel have told lies, and gone astray, it is not about going back to the beliefs or nations that used to exist, or a worship system that God says corrupted his message, it needs to be resurrected in the spirit through Christ .....you realise that the system of Christianity has done the same thing but I believe you are looking in the wrong direction, looking at the physical symbols in their corrupt form
JMO
Totally agree with you. Symbols point to deeper realities.
Totally agree with you. Symbols point to deeper realities.
The deep reality is the fact that 2 kingdoms ruled side by side, one named Israel, and one named Judah.
The reality is that Christians don't know the difference between two different people. People don't care about historical fact of who Israel was while they lived next to Judah, Christians don't want to admit the fact of the first Christianity being a sect of Judaism for 100 years.
The Christian acts as if it never happened, but when they speak of the bible, they don't know the difference between Judah and Ephraim and these two names are so important because Messiah ONLY brings a covenant for Ephraim and Judah. This new covenant is the law of God written on their heart and they are known without pointing them out. They are known for loving the Torah just as it states about Ephraim and Judah. They love the precepts and judgments of God and the law is always on their lips and so they are known to everyone around because that is who they are.
Ezekiel showing Judah and Ephraim and HOW THEY LOVE THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD One Nation With One King ~ There will no longer be an evil kingdom 15The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 16Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. 18And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these? 19Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. 20And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 21And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 23Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. 24And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
We all know who Ephraim and Judah are, Messiah comes bringing a New Covenant where he writes the commandments of God On their hearts and the law is ALWAYS upon their lips because of their great love of the laws that have been written upon their hearts.
If somebody thinks that they are in a covenant with Messiah, IN THE LEAST, they should have toi explain how it is that by some miracle they have now become Ephraim or Judah because Messiah's covenant is specific and he is not confused where we are told in so many prophets that he brings a covenant for Ephraim and Judah and if you are not one of these, why would you even debate the bible?
Messiah brings a covenant for Ephraim and Judah, and that is a biblical fact of life, if you think you are one of these, THEN PROVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you cannot prove it, then write to me, see, I will show you how to gain the name of Ephraim, it isn't hard........
And yet, the reality is that the Jews are the only people in the world who have continued to follows the ways that please God all these thousands of years, that is reality, and that is why there is a special covenant for Ephraim and Judah alone.
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Totally agree with you. Symbols point to deeper realities. 
