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Old 05-21-2018, 07:21 PM
 
Location: New England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
There are many things which are considered "ways of the world", which God disapproves. One of those things is bearing false witness, like insisting evangelicals are murdering school children, when everyone knows it is not true.

Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not;Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

So there we have it, Paul nails what the world is. Stuff that does not sound like what the tax collectors, prostitutes and publicans do.
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Old 05-22-2018, 09:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not;Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

So there we have it, Paul nails what the world is. Stuff that does not sound like what the tax collectors, prostitutes and publicans do.
The word rudiments refers to the basics upon which the "world" is built so it covers a LOT. One verse never covers a full subject.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:38 AM
 
Location: New England
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Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
The word rudiments refers to the basics upon which the "world" is built so it covers a LOT. One verse never covers a full subject.
Well not according to Paul here, he clearly is referring to the doctrines of men, which are rooted in a wrong conception of God and his desire for us.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Well not according to Paul here, he clearly is referring to the doctrines of men, which are rooted in a wrong conception of God and his desire for us.
In the context of that verse, it is the doctrine of men which includes not just religious but political and ideological teachings. Anything man declares is true, right, etc that is based simply on man's opinion and not God's word qualifies as a "doctrine of men" and is rooted on the wrong thing, as you note..
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:51 AM
 
Location: New England
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Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
In the context of that verse, it is the doctrine of men which includes not just religious but political and ideological teachings. Anything man declares is true, right, etc that is based simply on man's opinion and not God's word qualifies as a "doctrine of men" and is rooted on the wrong thing, as you note..
Do you have scriptures to support this view?
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Old 05-22-2018, 02:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Do you have scriptures to support this view?
1 John 2:15-16 15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.


More than just doctrine it includes behavior and desires.


John 18:36 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Jesus said those who live by the sword die by it to peter, showing being worldly includes violent acts.

John 15:19 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


This included the Governments as they all took a stand against Jesus followers.


It is doctrine in a religious sense,
Behavior in a worldly immoral sense
Violence for any cause
All Nations are worldly, so Nationalism, politics etc.
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Old 05-22-2018, 02:40 PM
 
Location: New England
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Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
1 John 2:15-16 15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.


More than just doctrine it includes behavior and desires.


John 18:36 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Jesus said those who live by the sword die by it to peter, showing being worldly includes violent acts.

John 15:19 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


This included the Governments as they all took a stand against Jesus followers.


It is doctrine in a religious sense,
Behavior in a worldly immoral sense
Violence for any cause
All Nations are worldly, so Nationalism, politics etc.
There is nothing stating in those verses that the world is not the religious system of the world. Read Matthew 23 and come back and tell me it isn't. The world you are talking about did not hate Jesus, the, prostitutes, tax collectors and publicans were the ones far more willing to accept Jesus Christ.
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Old 05-22-2018, 03:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
There is nothing stating in those verses that the world is not the religious system of the world. Read Matthew 23 and come back and tell me it isn't. The world you are talking about did not hate Jesus, the, prostitutes, tax collectors and publicans were the ones far more willing to accept Jesus Christ.
The world is not individuals it is the standards etc. the "world" hates Jesus followers as he said it would and killed them quite frequently. Rome and many other Nations have and are persecuting and even killing them and doing so even today. Individuals with bad behavior were welcome but they had to change and give up their ... worldly ways. It isn't just religions though false Christian religions have and are persecuting Christians even now.


Satan is the ruler of the world so it is everything influenced by him.


RSV John 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no power over me;
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Old 05-22-2018, 03:08 PM
 
Location: New England
37,337 posts, read 28,299,599 times
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Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
The world is not individuals it is the standards etc. the "world" hates Jesus followers as he said it would and killed them quite frequently. Rome and many other Nations have and are persecuting and even killing them and doing so even today. Individuals with bad behavior were welcome but they had to change and give up their ... worldly ways. It isn't just religions though false Christian religions have and are persecuting Christians even now.


Satan is the ruler of the world so it is everything influenced by him.


RSV John 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no power over me;
It's a religious system that as a form of godliness (in the eyes of the gullible) but denies the power. The same system that rejected him.
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Old 05-23-2018, 01:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
It's a religious system that as a form of godliness (in the eyes of the gullible) but denies the power. The same system that rejected him.
NIV Matthew 24:9 "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.


It is also the Nations, religious systems (false) and people individually.
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