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I’ve already determined you are unable or unwilling to answer my question. I’m trying to get answer from Clement or maybe pneuma.
I do not blame you for not wanting to tell us what the Saviour of the whole world was discussing in this "parable". It will blow your socks off and a whole lot more.
As for your question>>>>Rose is unable and unwilling to address your question. It is far too profound for my limited grasp.
I do not blame you for not wanting to tell us what the Saviour of the whole world was discussing in this "parable". It will blow your socks off and a whole lot more.
As for your question>>>>Rose is unable and unwilling to address your question. It is far too profound for my limited grasp.
You’re trying to change the subject. I’m not surprised. At least you’re honest about your inability to answer my question.
You’re trying to change the subject. I’m not surprised. At least you’re honest about your inability to answer my question.
You big silly...step one: go to the o.p. and tell us what the subject of this thread is. Seems in my limited grasp the questions are dead on the subject!
MUCH MORE then aionios life
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Many of God people believe aionios life is the fullness of life in Christ, and because of this error they have a hard time answering the eternal punishment and eternal life scriptures.
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They will state such things as aionios can mean something different within one sentence, and it subject determines the fullness or lack thereof of the meaning.
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But we need not change the meaning of aionios in such a fashion to understand Gods eternal (as in without beginning and without end) being. For there are other words in scripture to show forth Gods eternal (as in without beginning and without end) being.
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Before I show how God is eternal in the sense of without beginning and without end lets look at a few more scriptures that will help the reader understand aionios only means age-lasting and is of limited duration.
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The Hebrew word for aionios is olam, so lets look at a few scriptures from the old testament.
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Habakkuk 3:6
6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.
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The reader can see here that both the hills and Gods ways are everlasting. So if olam or aionios in the Greek means without beginning and without end then the hills had no beginning and will have no end, but we know that the hills have a beginning and we no that they have an end because they bow down.
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Now the only way for those who believe olam means eternal can get around this is to say olam means one thing in the first part of the sentence and means something else in the second part of the sentence. *
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Psalm 41:13
13 Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting. Amen, and Amen.
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Psalm 90:1-2
1 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
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Here the reader can see God is from olam/aionios to olam/aionios.
If olam/aionios means without beginning and without end then these scripture makes absolutely no sense, for can there be more then ONE eternity? Hardly, so the reader cans see olam/aionios is used in the limited sense of age-lasting.
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So the reader can see olam/aionios means age-lasting and is always used in a limited sense.
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But some will say if it is always used in a limited sense then that would mean aionios life is also limited in duration. This is CORRECT, aionios life is of limited duration.
I already know many will say that’s blaspheme, but bare with me for a few more moments if you will.
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Lets go back to Ps.90 for a moment and read it again.
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Psalm 90:1-2
1 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
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We have already seen olam/aionios is of limited duration, but what else does this scripture tell us? It tells us that the LIFE of God is GREATER then that of olam/aionios, for God is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios.
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The Life of God and of Christ is not just olam/aionios but their LIFE is MORE then that, yea MUCH MORE. Their LIFE exceeds the olam/aionios life just as a week exceeds a day, a month exceeds a week and a year exceeds a month, so to does the LIFE of God in Christ exceed olam/aionios LIFE.
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The error both camps fall into is the belief that aionios life is all the life there is in God and Christ. But as the reader just read God is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios, thus is it not then clear that we to in Christ are given a LIFE far greater then just olam/aionios LIFE.
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Lets read in Hebrew and you will see Christ life (and therefore ours) exceeds that of olam/aionios life.
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Hebrews 7:16
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
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Akatalutos-Endless: indissoluble, not subject to destruction
From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end
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Now as Akatalutos-Endless clearly shows that of a life without end, why did not the writers of the scriptures use Akatalutos concerning punishment and life instead of olam/aionios? Is it not because olam/aionios is of limited duration?
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What we receive in Christ is a AKATALUTOS/ENDLESS LIFE, a life that spans EVERY olam/aionios age-lasting life. Just as Gods life is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios so to is ours in Christ.
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Lets read in Pet. To further see this life we are to inherit that is MUCH MORE then olam/aionios life.
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1 Peter 1:3-4
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
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Aphthartos-incorruptible: uncorrupted, not liable to corruption or decay, imperishable
Again From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end
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Amarantos-fadeth not away: not fading away, unfading, perennial
Again From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end
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Can not the reader see here just how much more grand our life is in Christ then just olam/aionios age-abiding life?
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These are just a few examples of how MUCH MORE our life in Christ is then olam/aionios life.
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If punishment was to be eternal in the sense of without beginning and without end surely the Holy Spirit would have use one of the words expressed above to show this, but NEVER is any of these words that express endlessness EVER used in the punishments of God.
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Praise God there is MUCH MORE to life in Christ then just that of olam/aionios life, and it is because so many of God people do not realise this that they fall into the error of changing the meaning of words within the same sentence.
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Brothers and sister there is absolutely no need to do this if one can but see the life we have in Christ is MUCH MORE then olam/aionios life.
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Even FROM everlasting TO everlasting, thou art God.
You big silly...step one: go to the o.p. and tell us what the subject of this thread is. Seems in my limited grasp the questions are dead on the subject!
What qualifies one to be a sheep? (Nation)
What qualifies one to be a goat? (Nation)
******(According to the context of Matt:25)
This thread, like all the others you’ve started, is about whether Hell is eternal.
Hi Jimmie, I must have missed your question, can you re-post it or give the the post number.
Universalists say Hell is not eternal (I know some say non-existent). If the same Greek word is used for the length of Heaven and Hell, will Heaven also be temporary? If so, what will happen to us when Heaven ceases to exist?
Universalists say Hell is not eternal (I know some say non-existent). If the same Greek word is used for the length of Heaven and Hell, will Heaven also be temporary? If so, what will happen to us when Heaven ceases to exist?
can you supply the scripture that says heaven is eternal/aion/aionios
It is not irrelevant, we have kept the meaning because it meant eternal then as it does now.
And even in your link you show ignorance. Just some examples as my time is my money.
Jude does not use αἰωνίου for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, but for the punishment of the population of those towns.
John Chrysostom uses αἰωνίου to mean an age but qualifies it to avoid confusion. That is what people did when they meant an age instead of eternal.
Romans 16:25 does not need to clarify as the plural tells us what is meant. But note the next verse uses αἰωνίου for eternal.
2 Timothy 1:9, and Titus 1:2 both use the word to mean eternal. An age makes no sense in those passages. That eternity had a beginning is irrelevant because that is what the Jews thought. You are just trying to conflate eternal or everlasting with infinite.
Show me the historical proof of your statement:
"We have kept the meaning because it meant eternal then as it does now."
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