Progressive vs. Fundamental Christianity (holiday, Earth, forgive, accept)

[Horn of ‘83]

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

Yeah. Weird of me to take the Gospel at face value.

Jesus did not literally say “do not do pray publicly”. He said “do not be like the hypocrites”.

[MinivanDriver]

Originally Posted by jimmiej

You have no idea when and how I pray. I’m merely disagreeing with Minivan’s interpretation of that passage.

There is no interpretation. This is not a parable in which we might guess at the meaning. Nope. It is a clear instruction spoken in a simple sentence.

[MinivanDriver]

Originally Posted by jimmiej

Jesus did not literally say “do not do pray publicly”. He said “do not be like the hypocrites”.

He literally said this, "for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others." He described public prayer as a way to identify the hypocrites, instead counseling those who followed him to, get this, pray in secret.

[TroutDude]

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

He literally said this, "for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others." He described public prayer as a way to identify the hypocrites, instead counseling those who followed him to, get this, pray in secret.

Good luck. But jimmie has been burnishing his Fundashield for a very long time. Rationality and truth bounce harmlessly off.

[hball72]

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

No kidding. Maybe we can put JimmieJ in a time machine so he can go back to Palestine during that period to correct Jesus on what he was doing wrong. To wit:



Matthew 14:23


After He had sent the crowds away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray; and when it was evening, He was there alone.


Mark 1:35


In the early morning, while it was still dark, Jesus got up, left the house, and went away to a secluded place, and was praying there.


Luke 5:16


But Jesus Himself would often slip away to the wilderness and pray.


Luke 9:18


And it happened that while He was praying alone, the disciples were with Him, and He questioned them, saying, "Who do the people say that I am?"


Matthew 26:36


Then Jesus came with them to a place called Gethsemane, and said to His disciples, "Sit here while I go over there and pray."


Matthew 26:39


And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will."


Matthew 26:42


He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, "My Father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, Your will be done."


Matthew 26:44


And He left them again, and went away and prayed a third time, saying the same thing once more.


Mark 14:35


And He went a little beyond them, and fell to the ground and began to pray that if it were possible, the hour might pass Him by.

"Then Jesus lifted His eyes upward and said 'Father I thank You that You have heard me. I knew that You always hear Me, but I say this for the benefit of the people standing here, so that they may believe that You sent Me." John 11:41-42.

I think that there is a time and place for public prayer, it's just that it should be a minuscule portion of your prayer life, and the purpose isn't what most modern Christians think it is. It needs to be solidly backed up by your private prayer that no one else sees. It isn't to show off your spirituality or be seen by men.

I need to pray for people who request it in church sometimes because they ask me to do so, (It makes them feel better) but it's almost a formality, and I usually try to ditch the microphone before I do it. They don't know that I'm usually not really praying for them right then. I actually pray for them later when I'm alone.

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by jimmiej

You have no idea when and how I pray. I’m merely disagreeing with Minivan’s interpretation of that passage.

Did i say you did?, but you are blatantly ignoring the gospel examples of where Jesus did his praying.

The only bible verse that comes remotely close to what you are trying to peddle is this "Then Jesus lifted His eyes upward and said 'Father I thank You that You have heard me. I knew that You always hear Me, but I say this for the benefit of the people standing here, so that they may believe that You sent Me." John 11:41-42. This is not Jesus praying but acknowledging to the Father before those standing there , that what he prays in the secret place is always heard and answered by his Father.

[Horn of ‘83]

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

There is no interpretation. This is not a parable in which we might guess at the meaning. Nope. It is a clear instruction spoken in a simple sentence.

You were wrong to say “literally”. I agree it’s clear instructions. I just believe those instructions are, “don’t be a hypocrite.”

[Horn of ‘83]

Originally Posted by MinivanDriver

He literally said this, "for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others." He described public prayer as a way to identify the hypocrites, instead counseling those who followed him to, get this, pray in secret.

The issue was not public prayer, but an attitude of “wanting to be seen”. I would imagine many who participate in public prayer also pray in private.

[Horn of ‘83]

Originally Posted by pcamps

Did i say you did?, but you are blatantly ignoring the gospel examples of where Jesus did his praying.

The only bible verse that comes remotely close to what you are trying to peddle is this "Then Jesus lifted His eyes upward and said 'Father I thank You that You have heard me. I knew that You always hear Me, but I say this for the benefit of the people standing here, so that they may believe that You sent Me." John 11:41-42. This is not Jesus praying but acknowledging to the Father before those standing there , that what he prays in the secret place is always heard and answered by his Father.

Wrong. See also 1 Kings 8, Ezra 10, Daniel 6.

[Horn of ‘83]

Today was MLK Day. Our community gathered together to remember the legacy of MLK. Before the march, all gathered together for prayer, led by a local minister. You think that’s what Jesus was talking about? I don’t. It’s a community praying for racial harmony. I bet this happened all over our nation today.