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We just went over this. Paul said he participated in religious rites for reasons other than them being beneficial. He never made the declaration that praying in public was beneficial. There's no reason to assume that he wasn't just being "all things to all people" in that particular instance.
What Paul in 1 Corinthians 10 was addressing was the issue of believers eating or not eating meat that had been, or potentially had been sacrificed to idols. While it was lawful for a believer to do so, he should refrain from doing so in the presence of someone, for the sake of that someone whose conscience would be seared. Paul would eat such meat in the presence of Gentiles who would not be offended by eating meat that had been sacrificed to idols, but he would refrain from eating such meat in the presence of those (Jews and Jewish believers) who did not know that it was lawful to eat meat which had been sacrificed to idols.
This involved the principle of giving no offense either to Jew or Greek. It was lawful for a believer to eat meat which had been sacrificed to idols, but under certain circumstances it was not beneficial to do so.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the issue of praying in public. Paul didn't have to say anything about it being beneficial to pray in public. He did pray in public at least on the occasion mentioned in Acts 20:36.
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Jesus' statement was: Don't pray in public, which is what the Pharisees did. Instead, he said, DO pray privately. Not, pray in public with the "right intent". Just, pray privately.
You're reading in black and white terms without regard to the context or intent of Jesus' statement. Jesus' point was don't pray like the hypocrites do, in order to be seen by others. That does not mean that praying in public makes you a hypocrite. It does not mean that anyone who prays in public is doing it to be seen by others in order to appear pious. Again, intent and purpose make the difference.
Matthew 6:5 "When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
Yes, Jesus then goes on to say to go into your room and pray in secret, but that is not an absolute prohibition against group prayer. In Matthew 18:20 Jesus says that where two or three gather in His name, he is among them. Group prayer is a valid part of worship. It is also valid for a group to pray for others as in the case of Acts 20:36.
If you can only think in black and white terms without appreciation for intent, then you won't understand any of this. I think that about covers it. And I will leave it at that.
My point was that there is no second witness to the "Lord" talking to Paul, which makes the claim "not true" per John 5:31. Even the two different stories of Acts, with regard to the wilderness story, does not give a 2nd witness account to what happened, which is to say, the foundation of your house, is made of sand, and will "fall" (Matthew 7:27).
Oh, get your head out of the law. Besides, the Holy Spirit, perhaps through a prophet told the church leaders at Antioch to set aside Barnabas and Saul/Paul for the work He had called them (Acts 13:1-4). There are your witnesses to Paul's legitimacy as an apostle.
Because prayer is NOT to ask for things God already knows you need. It is to place your state of mind in closer contact with God to receive the benefits of the Comfort of His presence. God is NOT Santa Claus or John Beresford Tipton.
If you can only think in black and white terms without appreciation for intent, then you won't understand any of this. I think that about covers it. And I will leave it at that.
Generally, thinking in black and white has become much less of an issue for me since I was freed from the fundamentalist mindset that once had a hold on me. But, for the sake of argument, let's work with what you believe the passage means. What is your intent for public prayer? Also, is it the same as your intent when you pray privately? If not, how do they differ?
Generally, thinking in black and white has become much less of an issue for me since I was freed from the fundamentalist mindset that once had a hold on me. But, for the sake of argument, let's work with what you believe the passage means. What is your intent for public prayer? Also, is it the same as your intent when you pray privately? If not, how do they differ?
The same question has been put to jimmie, he knows perfectly well that we are not talking about praying out loud among their own(i kind of get and accept that, praing in one accord) but aloud before the world they believe they are not of.
The same question has been put to jimmie, he knows perfectly well that we are not talking about praying out loud among their own(i kind of get and accept that, praing in one accord) but aloud before the world they believe they are not of.
We have already discussed this. A community or group acknowledging their creator and asking for his help and guidance.
Yes, but we are discussing praying aloud in public before a world you do not believe you are part of. You shifted it to praying out loud among your own.
Because prayer is NOT to ask for things God already knows you need. It is to place your state of mind in closer contact with God to receive the benefits of the Comfort of His presence. God is NOT Santa Claus or John Beresford Tipton.
And to ask for His will to be done on earth as it is in Heaven, and for the strength / courage / ability (through the Spirit) to respond in kind, despite what the flesh tells you
The same question has been put to jimmie, he knows perfectly well that we are not talking about praying out loud among their own(i kind of get and accept that, praying in one accord) but aloud before the world they believe they are not of.
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Originally Posted by jimmiej
We have already discussed this. A community or group acknowledging their creator and asking for his help and guidance.
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Originally Posted by pcamps
Yes, but we are discussing praying aloud in public before a world you do not believe you are part of. You shifted it to praying out loud among your own.
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