What is the position of the Bible in our faith? (crucifixion, beliefs)
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You're making a dogmatic statement about a verse which Greek scholars are divided on. While you claim that 2 Tim. 3:16 should be translated '''All writing which is God-breathed..., '' that is by no means the majority view of scholars.
Daniel B. Wallace writes in his Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics with regard to 2 Tim. 3:16;
2 Tim. 3:16 πᾶσα γραφὴ θεόπνευστος καὶ ὠφέλιμος
every scripture is inspired and profitable
Many scholars feel that the translation should be: ''Every inspired scripture is also profitable.'' This is probably not the best translation, however, for the following reasons: (1) Contextually:
Wallace then expands on why the context does not support the view ''Every inspired scripture is also profitable.''
Then Wallace continues,
(2) Grammatically: (a) The fact that v 16 is asyndetic (i.e., begins without a conjunction) cannot be due to new subject matter, but to the solemnity of the statement because the author had been discussing the holy writings in v 15. Thus seeing θεόπνευστος as predicate fits in better with the solemn tone established at the beginning of the verse. (b) Since the copula is lacking, it needs to be supplied in English. And the most natural place to supply the equative verb is between the subject and the first word that follows it. It is in fact significant that an author typically leaves out the copula when he assumes the audience knows where it naturally should go. (c) The fact that καὶ means ''and'' twelve times as often as it means ''also,'' between two adjectives in the same case, argues for a predicate θεόπνευστος.
Wallace goes on in much more detail, which I won't bother to quote, but he ends with the comment,
In the least, the evidence renders translations of this verse such as the NEB's (''every inspired scripture has its use'') highly suspect.
Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Daniel B. Wallace, pp. 313-14.
Wallace, who is a highly qualified Greek scholar and whose intermediate Grammar, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics is a standard textbook in intermediate Greek courses, disagrees with your claim of how 2 Timothy 3:16 should be translated. As do others.
For instance, William D. Mounce who is a scholar of New Testament Greek makes the following comment concerning 2 Timothy 3:16 as quoted by Bill Wenstrom in the following paper on the Exegesis and Exposition of Second Timothy 3:16-17.
Mounce writes ''The question is whether Paul is thinking of Scripture as a cohesive whole (''all'') or as the sum total of its parts (''every''). Some argue that 'every' Scripture suggest that only some portions of Scripture are God-Breathed ('every Scripture that is inspired'), but this seems foreign to the text. Paul is encouraging Timothy to center his ministry on Scripture because it comes from God and will fully equip him for service. It is out of place in this context to introduce the note of supposed unreliability of some Scripture. Rather, translating πᾶσ as 'every' emphasizes that the origin of every single element of the OT comes from God.''
The above reference paper on the exegesis and exposition of 2 Timothy 3:16 is extensive in length, and I have only quoted William Mounces comment.
It is highly biased to dogmatically claim as you did that 2 Timothy 3:16 should be translated as ''All writing which is God-breathed. . .'' when scholars themselves are not unanimous regarding the translation, and very good arguments exist, both textually and grammatically for the proper translation as being 'all (or 'every') Scripture is God-breathed (or inspired)'.
A very scholarly exegesis. Standard form....which basically means that there is NO effort to see what the Spirit of Jesus' promise would show concerning some of the passages which must be included in your wholesale endorsement of a collection of the different perceptions presented over centuries of developing thoughts. You ignore glaring differences and claim a single theme that partisan theologians have jumped through amazing hoops to present as unity. Keep It Simple is a good rule and John did that when he said that all who love are from the God who IS love.
Where is that scripture that Jesus gave Peter the authority to determine what is scripture and what isn't?. This is getting rather ridiculous now jimmie leading me on a wild goose chase to get you to point me to where Jesus gave Peter such authority.
You're making a dogmatic statement about a verse which Greek scholars are divided on. While you claim that 2 Tim. 3:16 should be translated '''All writing which is God-breathed..., '' that is by no means the majority view of scholars.
Daniel B. Wallace writes in his Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics with regard to 2 Tim. 3:16;
2 Tim. 3:16 πᾶσα γραφὴ θεόπνευστος καὶ ὠφέλιμος
every scripture is inspired and profitable
Many scholars feel that the translation should be: ''Every inspired scripture is also profitable.'' This is probably not the best translation, however, for the following reasons: (1) Contextually:
Wallace then expands on why the context does not support the view ''Every inspired scripture is also profitable.''
Then Wallace continues,
(2) Grammatically: (a) The fact that v 16 is asyndetic (i.e., begins without a conjunction) cannot be due to new subject matter, but to the solemnity of the statement because the author had been discussing the holy writings in v 15. Thus seeing θεόπνευστος as predicate fits in better with the solemn tone established at the beginning of the verse. (b) Since the copula is lacking, it needs to be supplied in English. And the most natural place to supply the equative verb is between the subject and the first word that follows it. It is in fact significant that an author typically leaves out the copula when he assumes the audience knows where it naturally should go. (c) The fact that καὶ means ''and'' twelve times as often as it means ''also,'' between two adjectives in the same case, argues for a predicate θεόπνευστος.
Wallace goes on in much more detail, which I won't bother to quote, but he ends with the comment,
In the least, the evidence renders translations of this verse such as the NEB's (''every inspired scripture has its use'') highly suspect.
Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Daniel B. Wallace, pp. 313-14.
Wallace, who is a highly qualified Greek scholar and whose intermediate Grammar, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics is a standard textbook in intermediate Greek courses, disagrees with your claim of how 2 Timothy 3:16 should be translated. As do others.
For instance, William D. Mounce who is a scholar of New Testament Greek makes the following comment concerning 2 Timothy 3:16 as quoted by Bill Wenstrom in the following paper on the Exegesis and Exposition of Second Timothy 3:16-17.
Mounce writes ''The question is whether Paul is thinking of Scripture as a cohesive whole (''all'') or as the sum total of its parts (''every''). Some argue that 'every' Scripture suggest that only some portions of Scripture are God-Breathed ('every Scripture that is inspired'), but this seems foreign to the text. Paul is encouraging Timothy to center his ministry on Scripture because it comes from God and will fully equip him for service. It is out of place in this context to introduce the note of supposed unreliability of some Scripture. Rather, translating πᾶσ as 'every' emphasizes that the origin of every single element of the OT comes from God.''
The above reference paper on the exegesis and exposition of 2 Timothy 3:16 is extensive in length, and I have only quoted William Mounces comment.
It is highly biased to dogmatically claim as you did that 2 Timothy 3:16 should be translated as ''All writing which is God-breathed. . .'' when scholars themselves are not unanimous regarding the translation, and very good arguments exist, both textually and grammatically for the proper translation as being 'all (or 'every') Scripture is God-breathed (or inspired)'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
A very scholarly exegesis. Standard form....which basically means that there is NO effort to see what the Spirit of Jesus' promise would show concerning some of the passages which must be included in your wholesale endorsement of a collection of the different perceptions presented over centuries of developing thoughts. You ignore glaring differences and claim a single theme that partisan theologians have jumped through amazing hoops to present as unity. Keep It Simple is a good rule and John did that when he said that all who love are from the God who IS love.
No, I don't ignore those 'glaring differences'. And there's more to life than love. Furthermore, I simply addressed the viewpoints of Greek scholars who are vastly more qualified than you or the OP regarding the translation of 2 Timothy 3:16.
Last edited by Michael Way; 01-24-2019 at 01:12 PM..
Things such as justice and righteousness; practical matters such as earning a living, taking care of your health, getting an education, etc. You can't live on love alone.
Things such as justice and righteousness; practical matters such as earning a living, taking care of your health, getting an education, etc. You can't live on love alone.
You can be and do all those things while abiding in love.
You can be and do all those things while abiding in love.
Wrong approach, pcamps, the idea is that there really IS no "justice" or "righteousness" WITHOUT love. The problem here is that Mike and others like him CONTRAST those ideas with love instead of seeing how they must operate IN love. Go figure.
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