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So did Christ die for the antichrist and his followers ?
The antichrist is to be revealed in all men, and do you know how I know that the lawless one is within you?
The fact that you sin is proof, thats what the antichrists wonts to do.
Do you think that you dont sin?
Who will save me from this body of death, that which I do is what I dont want to do because there remains a son of lawlessness within me that leads me to stand against God and his laws.
The goat sins because he is lawless,but the sheep cannot sin.
Within UR, there is a great deal of diversity of thought and opinion. UR is considered "outside" the bounds of traditional mainstream theology, or it's simply dismissed outright as being heresy.
The reason for this is that the idea of Universal Reconciliation is not fully revealed or developed using plain scriptural language. It's a spiritual and heavenly doctrine that is often not discernible at the surface of the text. And, perhaps the reason Paul was unwilling to delve deeper and reveal more concerning the subject than he did, or that God permitted.
2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
That's what brings me here to this thread, to hear others, learn from others and get feedback on my own thoughts and ideas concerning the subject.
JJ: There are vast areas of our heavenly Lord that surpasses all we can think. It is in the realm of the koine musterion. The restitution of all things is one of those wonderfully glorious mysteries within the many pages of this link declaring it, but it still remains an inarticulate expression that remains largely hidden from the natural man.
"I always beseech the God of our Lord Jesus Christ--the Father most glorious--to give you a spirit of wisdom and penetration through an intimate knowledge of Him, the eyes of your understanding being enlightened so that you may know what is the hope which His call to you inspires...the transcendent greatness of His power as seen in the working of His infinite might...the completeness of Him who everywhere fills the universe with Himself."
There is no "time". It's an event without reference to time. And when the event (the flaming fires of judgment, righteousness and mercy) have accomplished their purpose, it's then that the soul shines forth like the sun, reflecting the righteous image of God, that it is.
Mat_13:43 'Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the reign of their Father. He who is having ears to hear—let him hear.
The ages of the ages
The Doctrine of the Ages in the Bible -Dr. Ernest L. Martin-
The teaching of the Scriptures regarding the eons provides answers to frustrating questions concerning the meaning of human existence. God's purpose in creating man, and God's purpose of the eons are inseparably related. Many are unfamiliar with this important subject because the facts have been concealed by incorrect and misleading translations of the Bible from the original languages into English.
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God's purpose of the eons
The teaching of the Scriptures regarding the eons provides answers to frustrating questions concerning the meaning of human existence. God's purpose in creating man, and God's purpose of the eons are inseparably related. Many are unfamiliar with this important subject because the facts have been concealed by incorrect and misleading translations of the Bible from the original languages into English.
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God's purpose of the eons
Thank's for the links, my friend. Those are really good. I've always considered the "ages" to come as being timeless periods or timeless events that take place without reference to a space-time continuum. Maybe the best way to describe it is being an indefinite period of time, lasting as long or short as it takes to achieve it's purpose.
Crazy, people like you think Jesus is coming to separate the goats in one hand, and the sheep on the other as if he separates two kinds of people when in fact, it is the day of division where you are cut in half taking the goat out of you, just as the tare is in you, and if you dont separate yourself from the tare, the division will happen after you die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
The antichrist is to be revealed in all men, and do you know how I know that the lawless one is within you?
The fact that you sin is proof, thats what the antichrists wonts to do.
Do you think that you dont sin?
Who will save me from this body of death, that which I do is what I dont want to do because there remains a son of lawlessness within me that leads me to stand against God and his laws.
The goat sins because he is lawless,but the sheep cannot sin.
I wish you would post more often in this thread. Your reference to the Sheep and Goat (spirit and flesh) within each of us and the "day of division" is described in Mat 25:31-33.
I wish you would post more often in this thread. Your reference to the Sheep and Goat (spirit and flesh) within each of us and the "day of division" is described in Mat 25:31-33.
Matthew 25
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another.
Notice its not the wicked people verses the righteous, it is the wicked nation separated from the righteous nation.
Those two nations are the worst of enemies.
Its what you are, people see one nation instead of the actual history of there being two nations, not one nation.
The nation of flesh and the nation of spirit and the two cannot be more opposed to each other, and this is Ephraim and Judah.
The kingdom of Israel became the very worst enemies of Judah and they were two separate kingdoms, the Israelis were never Jewish.
Two nations opposed to each other, one is lawless, and one is lawfull,
Between these two nations is a city of peace where the two should be married.
The problem has always been that the flesh should submit to the spirit and there should not be two kings in two separate kingdom, and because Israel would never submit to Judah in coming to keep the feasts of Jerusalem, they made their own holy city in Shechem, they appointed their own priests, and in their desperation to stay separate from Judah, they had to make their own religion against the religion of God.
For the entire 300 years of their reign, they were Judah's worst enemy until God said to them, " Ye are not my people, and I will not be your God."
They became known as the lost ten tribes but the prophets speak of their return in the billions.
When God said to them," Ye are not my people," it effectlvely did something very unique.
Allthough we know that the lost ten tribes return in great numbers, they all MUST come as submissive virgins to be married to Judah that the two should be one.
Jesus didnt come offering a betrothal for a Jew, a Jew is already a Jew, Jesus came offering Israel a betrothal.
Jesus came to perform a marriage between Israel and Judah where Israel would become Jews.
All those first non Jewish converts were non Jewish Israeli and the first Gentile convert wasnt added till ten years later after Peter had his dream.
Hebrews 8
I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Notice that God puts his laws in the hearts of the house of Israel, not Judah, Judah has stayed with the father all these years, they have the law.
Israel called the Torah a strange thing, not Judah.
I often tell Christians that they arent in the New Covenant because of the fact that they are neither Israel or Judah, and I can say this because its factually true.
But if I say that the flesh is Israel and the spirit is Judah, it is God's way of hiding his mercy, acting like hellfire is coming, he brags when he secretly plans to save everyone.
The great majority read the name," Israel," and they are confused in thinking its about Jews when it references a whole different people.
Jesus said that he only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and the lost sheep of the house of Israel were never Jews.
Paul explains his own adoption into Judah was one of the 7000 elect, Paul uses the promise to the lost Israel explaining that the he himself was adopted.
Paul was of Benjamin and Benjamin was the only tribe contained in both Israel and Judah, and this for good reason because Benjamin was the only true brother of Joseph by the same mother, and because Judah had offered his life for little Benjamin, Benjamin joined Judah.
Before there were two kingdoms, there had always been a natural split between the tribes because of the striking prophesies to both Judah and Joseph. Jacob's prophesies had clearly stated that Shilo would cpme from Judah, but then you look at the prophesies of Joseph, and it also insinuates the Messiah coming out of Joseph.
The tribes split deciding whether they wanted their families having joining Judah or Joseph before there were ever two kingdoms
Jesus came fulfilling the prophesies spoken of Ephraim, the second born of Joseph, the name, " Israel is synonymous with the name," Ephraim," because Ephraim ruled Israel so Israel became known as Ephraim.
When it was said," Behold, I have called my son out of Egypt," this is the prophesy of Ephraim, not Judah.
We have Jesus calling himself the son of David, and so he is, but he is also the son of Joseph who had to fulfill the.prophesies of Joseph and Ephraim.
He was Ephraim in flesh, and Judah in spirit.
[b]Why is this all so important to understand?
Because you are the nations of Ephraim and Judah, two opposing kings in either of your eyes.
Between the two opposing kingdoms is Jerusalem, your soul.
Most people understand the difference in Cain and Abel, they understand Ishmael and Isaac, they understand Esau and Jacob.
Now it is Ephraim and Judah that represent what a human is, an evil kingdom, a righteous kingdom, and your soul between the two in Jerusalem trying to make peace between the two kingdoms you are.
You know, there is a great need to talk about behavior, what regulates it. So many are under the impression that the threat of punishment is the way to prevent all sorts of behaviors. Their position is that people are not basically good.
I can't say that people are basically good. There isn't enough proof for that. What I can say is that it is obvious to any individual that their own desires are theirs. What's funny is that we know that those desires can be propagated from a whole host of "outside" influences.
If we are all connected, though, in the way that certain math works out such that the wisdom of the crowd can usually very accurately predict the correct number of jelly beans in a jar, then being the center of something that develops as a result of outside influences is not necessarily a game changer. It is more that there is an average of things, and distributions of outliers. This is all statistics. This sort of thinking is subject to math. Using this, we can understand people on some higher level, that involves looking at how they behave over all.
But, then, what is the situation, or where is the intellectual place, where something from the outside becomes part of a person? Sometimes those things are so deeply buried, the acceptances of outside things, that we aren't aware that they are part of us. Abuse can be like that. It teaches a person who has received it many things.
Everything that influences us in this way, however, is not abusive. Nor is all of it counterproductive, or misleading to our souls. The golden rule is one of those things. I would say, looking at the state of the world, that the golden rule is about the only thing holding this place together.
You have to ask yourself, is the golden rule enough? Will it break down under the pressure of trying to move into the next stage, where these issues concerning behavior are laid even more bare? Science has a similar predicament, in the resolution of quantum mechanics and general relativity. Because the golden rule may not contain all of the answers. It may not have the readily available heuristics that we can use to make these types of decisions quickly enough, for people whose moral environment is changing too quickly as well.
There will be changes. We should probably be aware of how hard that is for some people to cope with. They will decide for certain things which they would, maybe, not have, if they could have been able to approach their lives from a more historical position. But, for most people, we have to make decisions based upon a lack of knowledge. We can only choose to accept a viewpoint that includes uncertainly, and, therefore, a certain amount of depression, due to our lack of control.
It will be tempting to be in control and do whatever you want. Winner take all. That's how many people will decide that universalism should be embraced. They think that if there are no rules, then they can do anything. But I say that just because there is no hell it doesn't mean that I have to go off the handle. I don't need hell to be good. I just need to desire my best self.
It will be tempting to be in control and do whatever you want. Winner take all. That's how many people will decide that universalism should be embraced. They think that if there are no rules, then they can do anything. But I say that just because there is no hell it doesn't mean that I have to go off the handle. I don't need hell to be good. I just need to desire my best self.
Prophet: Our "best self" needs radical alignment to the One who transforms from the inside out. The alignment is to His standards, will & Person. God's purpose is not to account us righteous only, but to make us righteous.
"He comes to us in the brokenness of our health, in the shipwreck of our family lives, in the loss of all possible peace of mind, even in the very thick of our sins. He saves us in our disasters, not from them. He emphatically does not promise to meet only the odd winner of the self-improvement lottery. He meets us all in our endless and inescapable losing." ~Robt. Capon
You know, there is a great need to talk about behavior, what regulates it. So many are under the impression that the threat of punishment is the way to prevent all sorts of behaviors. Their position is that people are not basically good.
I can't say that people are basically good. There isn't enough proof for that. What I can say is that it is obvious to any individual that their own desires are theirs. What's funny is that we know that those desires can be propagated from a whole host of "outside" influences.
If we are all connected, though, in the way that certain math works out such that the wisdom of the crowd can usually very accurately predict the correct number of jelly beans in a jar, then being the center of something that develops as a result of outside influences is not necessarily a game changer. It is more that there is an average of things, and distributions of outliers. This is all statistics. This sort of thinking is subject to math. Using this, we can understand people on some higher level, that involves looking at how they behave over all.
But, then, what is the situation, or where is the intellectual place, where something from the outside becomes part of a person? Sometimes those things are so deeply buried, the acceptances of outside things, that we aren't aware that they are part of us. Abuse can be like that. It teaches a person who has received it many things.
Everything that influences us in this way, however, is not abusive. Nor is all of it counterproductive, or misleading to our souls. The golden rule is one of those things. I would say, looking at the state of the world, that the golden rule is about the only thing holding this place together.
You have to ask yourself, is the golden rule enough? Will it break down under the pressure of trying to move into the next stage, where these issues concerning behavior are laid even more bare? Science has a similar predicament, in the resolution of quantum mechanics and general relativity. Because the golden rule may not contain all of the answers. It may not have the readily available heuristics that we can use to make these types of decisions quickly enough, for people whose moral environment is changing too quickly as well.
There will be changes. We should probably be aware of how hard that is for some people to cope with. They will decide for certain things which they would, maybe, not have, if they could have been able to approach their lives from a more historical position. But, for most people, we have to make decisions based upon a lack of knowledge. We can only choose to accept a viewpoint that includes uncertainly, and, therefore, a certain amount of depression, due to our lack of control.
It will be tempting to be in control and do whatever you want. Winner take all. That's how many people will decide that universalism should be embraced. They think that if there are no rules, then they can do anything. But I say that just because there is no hell it doesn't mean that I have to go off the handle. I don't need hell to be good. I just need to desire my best self.
You look at this from a misleading point of view....golden rule is not good enough? People are not basically good?
You said> Winner take all. Who is the winner? God? Does He proclaim victory or defeat?
In regard to people being basically good or not...just spend some time with a newborn and that is answered right away. Children are pure in spirit , it is the world that changes that for many and that is why many are called but few are chosen. It is our decisions that determine that outcome.
Lastly, stop and think for awhile who/what controls what it is exactly what we desire. Why would I love to fish or bike but you hate those and prefer jogging. Who controls what we like? Think Pharaoh in Egypt...God gave him the desire to keep the Jews, not of his own making. This is done, I believe, on a daily and individual level as well for many of our actions...God gets what He wants and He does it through influencing our wants and desires but again, how decisions determine the outcome (the outcome for us, God's plan is perfect)
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