Universalism - all aspects - pro and con (doctrine, believe, scripture)

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by jimmiej

Yes, Jesus saved all, but as scripture tells us, we must believe to access that salvation. “Without faith, it is impossible to please God.”

Jimmie how can you say Jesus saved all when you do not believe He did? and all will have faith jimmie.

[Rose2Luv]

Originally Posted by pneuma

Jimmie how can you say Jesus saved all when you do not believe He did? and all will have faith jimmie.

Like most evangelicals believe, God means well and has sent us His Son out of Himself to save us.

However:

This is a co-operative effort with the emphasis on me and my decisions.

We are secure not because we hold tightly to Jesus, but because He holds tightly to us.

“A drowning man cannot be saved until he is utterly exhausted and ceases to make the slightest effort to save himself.” -Watchman Nee

[Horn of ‘83]

Originally Posted by Rose2Luv

Like most evangelicals believe, God means well and has sent us His Son out of Himself to save us.

However:

This is a co-operative effort with the emphasis on me and my decisions.

We are secure not because we hold tightly to Jesus, but because He holds tightly to us.

To be clear, Jesus died for the sins of all, to satisfy the Father’s holiness. It is up to each person to accept that or not. For those who say yes, we are secure in God’s hands.

For those who say no, they will be eternally separated from God in hell.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by jimmiej

To be clear, Jesus died for the sins of all, to satisfy the Father’s holiness. It is up to each person to accept that or not. For those who say yes, we are secure in God’s hands.
For those who say no, they will be eternally separated from God in hell.

As my two favorite fundies like to say, "That is directly from the pit of Hell!" This is a ludicrous belief, Jimmie. It is beyond savage and barbaric to even think that such a horrendous scourging and crucifixion could be in any way related to God's Holiness!!! Please try to apply some reason and common decency to your beliefs about God.

Jesus accomplished what none of us could ever accomplish under such horrendous conditions - the perfect agape love and forgiveness of God (Holy Spirit) in His human consciousness thereby connecting His human consciousness to God. That is how He is the Way to God and how He eliminated the need for any of us to achieve such perfection under the cover of His (Grace).

[Jerwade]

Originally Posted by jimmiej

To be clear, Jesus died for the sins of all, to satisfy the Father’s holiness. It is up to each person to accept that or not. For those who say yes, we are secure in God’s hands.

For those who say no, they will be eternally separated from God in hell.

How does that satisfy his holiness, Jimmiej?

[Rose2Luv]

Originally Posted by jimmiej

To be clear, Jesus died for the sins of all, to satisfy the Father’s holiness. It is up to each person to accept that or not. For those who say yes, we are secure in God’s hands.

For those who say no, they will be eternally separated from God in hell.

Nonsense

Jesus the Christ died for us for one reason: out of Father's love to bring us to God.

There is no such animal as eternal separation from Father's love!

God is the Source, Guide & Goal of the all (ta panta).

[Rose2Luv]

15 Questions ?

1 If God will have all men to be saved, and if most men are lost, then how can God be supreme (1 Tim.2:3,4)?

2 If Christ is the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world, did He die in vain for the lost (1 John 2:2)?

3 If God is going to reconcile the universe through Christ, how can some be tormented forever (Col. 1:20)?

4 How can God, in Christ, gather all things together as one while billions remain eternally estranged (Eph.1:10)?

5 If all die in Adam, and a few are made alive in Christ, how can grace much more abound than sin (Rom. 5:20)?

6 If all men are condemned by Adam’s offense, why are not all justified by the one just award (Rom. 5:18)?

7 If all die in Adam, why shall not all be made alive in Christ (1 Cor. 15:22)?

8 How can every knee bow confessing Christ Lord, to God’s glory, unless reconciled (Phil. 2:10,11)?

9 If Christ only hath immortality, how can any of the dead be alive now (1 Tim. 6:14-16; 1 Cor. 15:53, 54)?

10 If the wicked go to hell as soon as they die, why are they raised and judged later (Rev. 20:11-15)?

11 Since the lake of fire is the second death, what happens to the wicked when death is destroyed (1 Cor.15:26)?

12 If “forever” means “eternity” what does “forever and ever” mean?

13 If God is Love and has all power, will He not find a way to save all (1 Tim. 4:9-11)?

14 If Christ is to reign for ever and ever, what does it mean that He will abdicate His throne (Rev. 11:15; 1 Cor. 15:24)?

15 Will God ever actually become All in all (1 Cor.15:28)?

[Charlie24]

Originally Posted by Rose2Luv

15 Questions ?

1 If God will have all men to be saved, and if most men are lost, then how can God be supreme (1 Tim.2:3,4)?

2 If Christ is the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world, did He die in vain for the lost (1 John 2:2)?

3 If God is going to reconcile the universe through Christ, how can some be tormented forever (Col. 1:20)?

4 How can God, in Christ, gather all things together as one while billions remain eternally estranged (Eph.1:10)?

5 If all die in Adam, and a few are made alive in Christ, how can grace much more abound than sin (Rom. 5:20)?

6 If all men are condemned by Adam’s offense, why are not all justified by the one just award (Rom. 5:18)?

7 If all die in Adam, why shall not all be made alive in Christ (1 Cor. 15:22)?

8 How can every knee bow confessing Christ Lord, to God’s glory, unless reconciled (Phil. 2:10,11)?

9 If Christ only hath immortality, how can any of the dead be alive now (1 Tim. 6:14-16; 1 Cor. 15:53, 54)?

10 If the wicked go to hell as soon as they die, why are they raised and judged later (Rev. 20:11-15)?

11 Since the lake of fire is the second death, what happens to the wicked when death is destroyed (1 Cor.15:26)?

12 If “forever” means “eternity” what does “forever and ever” mean?

13 If God is Love and has all power, will He not find a way to save all (1 Tim. 4:9-11)?

14 If Christ is to reign for ever and ever, what does it mean that He will abdicate His throne (Rev. 11:15; 1 Cor. 15:24)?

15 Will God ever actually become All in all (1 Cor.15:28)?

The answer to every one of those questions is found in God's free will given to man.

This is where you fail, you falter, you refuse to understand that man chooses his own way.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Charlie24

The answer to every one of those questions is found in God's free will given to man.
This is where you fail, you falter, you refuse to understand that man chooses his own way.

Our Dominion and free will ONLY apply while we are alive on earth, Charlie. After death, all bets are off! The road to repentance and correction may not be very pleasant but it will end as God wills it to end.

[Charlie24]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Our Dominion and free will ONLY apply while we are alive on earth, Charlie. After death, all bets are off! The road to repentance and correction may not be very pleasant but it will end as God wills it to end.

And because our free will only applies in this life on earth, all opportunities for salvation are limited to the time of life on this earth!