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That a person enters into the kingdom by believing in Universalism?
Or, that everyone enters into the kingdom regardless of what they believe?
If you believe that no one enters into the kingdom apart from faith in Jesus Christ, why not preach that?
Strictly speaking, not everyone is going to enter the Kingdom of God. Very few are. Narrow is the path, as you say.
First we must understand what the Kingdom of God is. From the greek basileia theos, which quite literally means reign or Kingdom with God. It is talking about reigning with Christ. That is what the Kingdom will do.
NOT everyone will get to do that. Only those who call on Jesus name, and follow Him, and are spiritually in Him, doing what He says (Why do you call me 'Lord' but do not do what I say?). If you are still sinning, you are not in Him or in the Kingdom yet. But if you see God working on your life now so that the sin is being removed, then you are on the path!
Only he that overcomes will reign with Christ.
1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Psalm 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Read these verses carefully; there are others that are related. Notice even Christ was broken. Him that overcomes rules with Christ and breaks the vessels with a rod of iron. Who are the vessels? EVERYONE ELSE. Who do you think Christ and the saints are REIGNING OVER?
Psalm 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
Who are they judging? Everyone else. They are the judges of the earth. They are reigning and judging with Christ.
Isaiah 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
They are the judges of the earth, and when they judge, the people will learn righteousness.
Isaiah 26:10 Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the Lord.
Favour is grace. You see, grace is shown to the wicked, but they do not learn righteousness that way. They only learn it by judgment, as in the previous verse.
Romans 5:19 ... so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
This is how they are made righteous - by Christ and the saints judging the peoples of the world, the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron, breaking them! The sin is going to be broken right out of them!
Christ is breaking the few chosen right now. Removing the sin from them so they will overcome in Him. In the same way all others will be broken down and have their sin removed. This is how Christ takes away the sin of the world. Its not just a magical incantation. He actually does it.
It's as narrow as Christ makes it. Not all enter at the same time. Each in their own order. They can enter one at a time if Christ so desires.
Strictly speaking I don't quite agree here. Not all enter the Kingdom (REIGN) of Christ. Only those who overcome will reign and break down the many who are will be saved later.
I outlined it just above jjGuru - what do you think?
I think that it ought to be a major point of doctrine among Universalists, in order to avoid confusion, that a person does not enter into heaven apart from faith in Jesus Christ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
I do not believe that what I am saying and orthodoxy part company.
I define orthodoxy by the Bible and the creeds.
Colossians 1:5 and 1 Peter 1:4 and Revelation 21:9-22:5 speak adequately of heaven from my perspective.
Who said anything about the existence of heaven? I am talking about this sentence of your " that a person does not enter into heaven apart from faith in Jesus Christ", whether it exists in the scriptures or not
No, this verse does not say that......Col 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
No, this verse does not say that ....... 1 Peter 1-4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.
Nether does Rev 21 that you quoted.
Please quote me the scripture where this sentence of yours can be found in the scriptures "that a person does not enter into heaven apart from faith in Jesus Christ".
Our Salvation is about returning to the Father, not only in the life to come, but right here in the here and now.
25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you[e] known to them, and will continue to make you known IN ORDER that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”
Strictly speaking, not everyone is going to enter the Kingdom of God. Very few are. Narrow is the path, as you say.
First we must understand what the Kingdom of God is. From the greek basileia theos, which quite literally means reign or Kingdom with God. It is talking about reigning with Christ. That is what the Kingdom will do.
NOT everyone will get to do that. Only those who call on Jesus name, and follow Him, and are spiritually in Him, doing what He says (Why do you call me 'Lord' but do not do what I say?). If you are still sinning, you are not in Him or in the Kingdom yet. But if you see God working on your life now so that the sin is being removed, then you are on the path!
Only he that overcomes will reign with Christ.
1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Psalm 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Read these verses carefully; there are others that are related. Notice even Christ was broken. Him that overcomes rules with Christ and breaks the vessels with a rod of iron. Who are the vessels? EVERYONE ELSE. Who do you think Christ and the saints are REIGNING OVER?
Psalm 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
Who are they judging? Everyone else. They are the judges of the earth. They are reigning and judging with Christ.
Isaiah 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
They are the judges of the earth, and when they judge, the people will learn righteousness.
Isaiah 26:10 Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the Lord.
Favour is grace. You see, grace is shown to the wicked, but they do not learn righteousness that way. They only learn it by judgment, as in the previous verse.
Romans 5:19 ... so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
This is how they are made righteous - by Christ and the saints judging the peoples of the world, the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron, breaking them! The sin is going to be broken right out of them!
Christ is breaking the few chosen right now. Removing the sin from them so they will overcome in Him. In the same way all others will be broken down and have their sin removed. This is how Christ takes away the sin of the world. Its not just a magical incantation. He actually does it.
Do you understand?
How do you deal with Hebrews 9:27 as it relates to Revelation 20:10-15?
Who said anything about the existence of heaven? I am talking about this sentence of your " that a person does not enter into heaven apart from faith in Jesus Christ", whether it exists in the scriptures or not
No, this verse does not say that......Col 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
No, this verse does not say that ....... 1 Peter 1-4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.
Nether does Rev 21 that you quoted.
Please quote me the scripture where this sentence of yours can be found in the scriptures "that a person does not enter into heaven apart from faith in Jesus Christ".
Our Salvation is about returning to the Father, not only in the life to come, but right here in the here and now.
25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you[e] known to them, and will continue to make you known IN ORDER that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”
How do you deal with Hebrews 9:27 as it relates to Revelation 20:10-15?
I hope you read my post you just quoted that explains how those in the Kingdom of God will be judging the earth. Judgment is not a net negative. It is actually a positive.
So the answer should be obvious.
Psalm 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
Isaiah 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
They are judging the earth, so they will learn righteousness. When does this happen? Hebrews 9:27!
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment!
If you haven't been corrected and overcome in this life, Jesus is going to make sure it happens after you die. After all He does take away the sin of the world!
So what is the lake of fire? It is the judgment that corrects so that all will learn righteousness and be made righteous, just as Paul told us in Romans 5.
Fire is purifying.
Fire is purging.
Fire destroys the bad, and makes the good better.
In fact God is a consuming fire. Do you know that God is everywhere?
God is in all. No man comes to the Father except through me. “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and WE WILL COME to them and make OUR HOME >>>>>>>>>>> with them".
I hope you read my post you just quoted that explains how those in the Kingdom of God will be judging the earth. Judgment is not a net negative. It is actually a positive.
So the answer should be obvious.
Psalm 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
Isaiah 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
They are judging the earth, so they will learn righteousness. When does this happen? Hebrews 9:27!
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment!
If you haven't been corrected and overcome in this life, Jesus is going to make sure it happens after you die. After all He does take away the sin of the world!
So what is the lake of fire? It is the judgment that corrects so that all will learn righteousness and be made righteous, just as Paul told us in Romans 5.
Fire is purifying.
Fire is purging.
Fire destroys the bad, and makes the good better.
In fact God is a consuming fire. Do you know that God is everywhere?
I really do hope that what you are saying is true.
Thing is, the entirety of your doctrine disarms every reason that I have for evangelizing people with fervor.
With a hope that what you were saying was true, I checked the Greek dictionary for the definition of "everlasting" and "eternal" in Matthew 25:46.
This is what it came up with.
αἰώνιος
Transliteration
aiōnios (Key)
Pronunciation
ahee-o'-nee-os
Part of Speech
adjective
Root Word (Etymology)
From αἰών (G165)
Greek Inflections of αἰώνιος [?]
mGNT
71x in 9 unique form(s) TR
71x in 11 unique form(s) LXX
116x in 13 unique form(s)
αἰώνια — 1x
αἰωνίαν — 2x
αἰωνίοις — 1x
αἰώνιον — 45x
αἰώνιός — 1x
αἰώνιος — 2x
αἶώνιος — 1x
αἰωνίου — 14x
αἰωνιόυ — 1x
αἰωνίους — 1x
αἰωνίων — 2x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
TDNT Reference: 1:208,31
KJV Translation Count — Total: 71x
The KJV translates Strong's G166 in the following manner: eternal (42x), everlasting (25x), the world began (with G5550) (2x), since the world began (with G5550) (1x), for ever (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?] without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
without beginning
without end, never to cease, everlasting
Click for Synonyms
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
αἰώνιος aiṓnios, ahee-o'-nee-os; from G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):—eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon [?](Jump to Scripture Index)
STRONGS G166:
αἰώνιος, -ον, and (in 2 Thessalonians 2:16; Hebrews 9:12; Numbers 25:13; Plato, Tim., p. 38 b. [see below]; Diodorus 1:1; [cf. WHs Appendix, p. 157; Winers Grammar, 69 (67); Buttmann, 26 (23)]) -ος, -α, -ον, (αἰών);
1. without beginning or end, that which always has been and always will be: θεός, Romans 16:26 (ὁ μόνος αἰώνιος, 2 Macc. 1:25); πνεῦμα, Hebrews 9:14.
2. without beginning: χρόνοις αἰωνίοις, Romans 16:25; πρὸ χρόνων αἰωνίων, 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 1:2; εὐαγγέλιον, a gospel whose subject-matter is eternal, i. e., the saving purpose of God adopted from eternity, Revelation 14:6.
3. without end, never to cease, everlasting: 2 Corinthians 4:18 (opposed to πρόσκαιρος); αἰώνιον αὐτόν, joined to thee forever as a sharer of the same eternal life, Philemon 1:15; βάρος δόξης, 2 Corinthians 4:17; βασιλεία, 2 Peter 1:11; δόξα, 2 Timothy 2:10; 1 Peter 5:10; ζωή (see ζωή, 2 b.); κληρονομία, Hebrews 9:15; λύτρωσις, Hebrews 9:12; παράκλησις, 2 Thessalonians 2:16; σκηναί, abodes to be occupied forever, Luke 16:9 (the habitations of the blessed in heaven are referred to, cf. John 14:2 [also, dabo eis tabernacula aeterna, quae praeparaveram illis, 4 Esdras (Fritzsche, 5 Esdr.) 2:11]; similarly Hades is called αἰώνιος τόπος, Tobit 3:6, cf. Ecclesiastes 12:5); σωτηρία, Hebrews 5:9; [so Mark 16 WH, in the (rejected) 'Shorter Conclusion'].
Opposite ideas are: κόλασις, Matthew 25:46; κρίμα, Hebrews 6:2; κρίσις, Mark 3:29 (Rec. [but L T WH Tr text ἁμαρτήματος; in Acta Thom. § 47, p. 227 Tdf., ἔσται σοι τοῦτο εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν καὶ λύτρον αἰωνίων παραπτωμάτων, it has been plausibly conjectured we should read λύτρον, αἰώνιον (cf. Hebrews 9:12)]); ὄλεθρος [Lachmann text ὀλέθριος], 2 Thessalonians 1:9 (4 Macc. 10:15); πῦρ, Matthew 25:41 (4 Macc. 12:12 αἰωνίῳ πυρὶ κ. βασάνοις, αἳ εἰς ὅλον τὸν αἰῶνα οὐκ ἀνήσουσί σε).
Good thing I make it my aim to study to shew myself approved unto the Lord, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
I was actually thinking of teaching your doctrine, if it turned out that aionios really did mean "age-during". I would have started out with a bang by showing that the Greek definition does indeed mean that.
But unfortunately it doesn't mean that.
Y'all need to repent of teaching this Universalist doctrine for it is false doctrine and heresy.
It is even a different gospel than what Paul preached.
Gal 1:6, I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7, Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8, But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9, As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Maybe if you repent of preaching this false gospel, God can remove the curse from you; for it is written that Christ became a curse on our behalf in order that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles; even the promise of the Spirit through faith.
I really do hope that what you are saying is true.
Thing is, the entirety of your doctrine disarms every reason that I have for evangelizing people with fervor.
I once said to a minister of the pentecostal persuasion, that I frankly thought the scriptural support for pentecostal beliefs were thin and questionable at best. He responded in a moment of honest self-reflection, "But ... but without those doctrines we would not BE pentecostals!
He was caught up in his identification with a particular set of beliefs and practices, and what he blurted out in that moment was caused by his recognition that his personal identity had gotten mixed up with his objective assessment of scripture.
I would say you have a similar identification to protect, as a heroic saver of souls.
But it could just as well be that god has the saving of souls fully handled, and just wants you to enjoy cultivating your relationship with him and helping others to do the same. That might not be as exciting and edgy, but can be just as gratifying, I'd think. In some alternate timeline where I had not left the faith, I think I might have evolved more in that direction.
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