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Mat 13:41, The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42, And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:49, So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Is "wailing and gnashing of teeth" secret code for "eternal hell"?
Is "wailing and gnashing of teeth" secret code for "eternal hell"?
I'm not even making that argument here.
I am merely saying that when the change is made because of the fire, and everything goes upward, that there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth in the process.
Even if it isn't eternal wouldn't you say that it is something to be avoided?
More so than that dreaded decision that you are facing concerning receiving Jesus as your Lord and Saviour?
Or, is it more acceptable to you that you would have wailing and gnashing of teeth for a season rather than accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour in the now?
If that is more acceptable to you, can you not see how I might be inclined as an evangelist to favour eternal torments as a deterrent for sin rather than temporal torments?
But if temporal torments is enough of a deterrent, what is keeping you from receiving Jesus as your Lord and Saviour today?
The following presents the way in.
Rom 10:8, But what saith <the righteousness of faith>? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10, For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11, For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12, For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
And what I post below won't hurt you in the slightest either.
Act 2:38, Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39, For the <conditional> promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
For it is written,
Act 4:10, Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11, This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12, Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
and,
1Pe 3:20, Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21, The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
I guarantee that if you do these things, whatever is false in your doctrine will fall into place; for you will be born again and will no longer be inclined towards heresy.
Also to be considered in light of Acts 2:38-39 (quoted above) is the following.
Rom 8:30, Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
It seems to me that the only ones who won't be hurt of the second death are the overcomers in the church of Smyrna.
Rev 2:8, And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Rev 2:9, I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 2:10, Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Rev 2:11, He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
I am merely saying that when the change is made because of the fire, and everything goes upward, that there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth in the process.
Even if it isn't eternal wouldn't you say that it is something to be avoided?
Certainly, but people wail and gnash their teeth every day. Even in this very forum!
Quote:
More so than that dreaded decision that you are facing concerning receiving Jesus as your Lord and Saviour?
Or, is it more acceptable to you that you would have wailing and gnashing of teeth for a season rather than accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour in the now?
If that is more acceptable to you, can you not see how I might be inclined as an evangelist to favour eternal torments as a deterrent for sin rather than temporal torments?
But if temporal torments is enough of a deterrent, what is keeping you from receiving Jesus as your Lord and Saviour today?
We are called to judge ourselves now so that we can be like Jesus - that is how you enter the Kingdom. That is what 'receiving Jesus' is.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal (eonian), that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
We must truly know Jesus to enter the Kingdom. Act in accordance with Him... (Why do you call me Lord but do not do what I say?). Love our neighbour, even love our enemies, so that we may be perfect like the Father. That is eternal (eonian) life.
Consider something. Is 'eternal torments' a good way to get people to understand? Many people find the idea ridiculous and evil and its why they reject Christianity. But consider the 'temporal torments' - they are VERY real. We have a pandemic, war, rising costs. Very soon people may not be able to afford to eat, even in our Western countries. I do fear that we are entering a very dark time in the next few years. And it is because of selfishness and greed - the opposite of Christ. There is much work to do here and now without presenting 'eternal torments', just because it might be a 'good deterrent'. Its not a good deterrent.
Quote:
The following presents the way in.
Rom 10:8, But what saith <the righteousness of faith>? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10, For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11, For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12, For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
And what I post below won't hurt you in the slightest either.
Act 2:38, Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39, For the <conditional> promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
For it is written,
Act 4:10, Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11, This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12, Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
and,
1Pe 3:20, Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21, The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
I guarantee that if you do these things, whatever is false in your doctrine will fall into place; for you will be born again and will no longer be inclined towards heresy.
Also to be considered in light of Acts 2:38-39 (quoted above) is the following.
Rom 8:30, Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
It seems to me that the only ones who won't be hurt of the second death are the overcomers in the church of Smyrna.
Rev 2:8, And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Rev 2:9, I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 2:10, Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Rev 2:11, He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
All those who overcome will not be hurt of the second death. It is the same group throughout revelations - it is those who believe on Christ.
They are the chosen elect. Chosen for what? Go read some of my previous posts about how they will judge the people of the earth...
Certainly, but people wail and gnash their teeth every day. Even in this very forum!
Do you?
I don't...
Quote:
We are called to judge ourselves now so that we can be like Jesus - that is how you enter the Kingdom. That is what 'receiving Jesus' is.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal (eonian), that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
We must truly know Jesus to enter the Kingdom. Act in accordance with Him... (Why do you call me Lord but do not do what I say?). Love our neighbour, even love our enemies, so that we may be perfect like the Father. That is eternal (eonian) life.
Does eternal life only last for a singular eon, in your opinion?
Quote:
Consider something. Is 'eternal torments' a good way to get people to understand? Many people find the idea ridiculous and evil and its why they reject Christianity. But consider the 'temporal torments' - they are VERY real. We have a pandemic, war, rising costs. Very soon people may not be able to afford to eat, even in our Western countries. I do fear that we are entering a very dark time in the next few years. And it is because of selfishness and greed - the opposite of Christ. There is much work to do here and now without presenting 'eternal torments', just because it might be a 'good deterrent'. Its not a good deterrent.
Quote:
It's all good!
You should consider that people do not have remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost apart from repentance and baptism in Jesus' Name.
You should consider also that Acts 2:38-39 presents a conditional promise that is given to as many as the Lord our God shall call (Acts 2:39).
If you are not among those whom He has called or will call, you were never predestined, and will not be justified, and certainly will never be glorified (Romans 8:30).
So, it presents a narrow path that is not entered into by all.
For I think that only common sense tells us that not everyone who has ever lived has been baptized in Jesus' Name.
Neither has everyone who has ever lived received Jesus as their Lord and Saviour by "calling on the name of the Lord".
So, it is appointed unto man once to die and after this the judgment (Hebrews 9:27).
What becomes of those, who at the judgment, are not overcomers in the church of Smyrna; and who have never received the salvation that Jesus has to offer?
Will the Lord scorch them with fire until they repent?
Consider.
Rev 16:8, And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
Rev 16:9, And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
Rev 16:10, And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Rev 16:11, And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Some who are in existence will never be able to repent:
Heb 6:4, For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7, For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8, But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
How then will everyone eventually be saved?
Last edited by justbyfaith; 06-11-2022 at 12:05 PM..
Since there is a category of people concerning whom it is impossible for them to repent,
Does it not follow that there may also be a category of people concerning whom, although they are able to repent, simply will not choose to do so until it is too late?
Does eternal life only last for a singular eon, in your opinion?
You just don't get it. They are BOTH INDETERMINATE for an obvious reason. God decides how long anything lasts, period, NOT you and your "tickled ears."
Maybe he doesn't? Maybe its a natural part of the cycle like anything else.
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