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Have you thought to read the context that the 2 verses are in? Maybe a chapter before and after?
I hadn't read the other chapters before responding to Miss H. Inspired by your post, I took the opportunity to re-read from Chapter 4 and the ensuing verses in Chapter 5. I was uplifted by reading them. This in particular spoke to me:
"For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) and find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. This is why it is said:
“Wake up, sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”
Everything that is illuminated becomes a light...When we become "imitators" of God we become illuminated and become a light to those around us. Our very being can uplift, light the way, and be a source of illumination to others in need...
Don't know. I'll ask him someday when I see him. If I think it's important enough. Somehow, being in the presence of God and all, I'm not sure that it'll matter to me.
Ha - thanks for trying. Was hoping to get a response from V6Cruiser, but he bailed.
This verse might help you - 1 Timothy 4:14 ; so in the letter/verse Paul was REMINDING of what had already previously occurred (tradition), obviously, by context. Would be interesting to discuss exactly what 'gift' he was being reminded not to neglect - as by context it wouldn't have been a baptism or a healing of the sick - neither usually done by council elders/presbytery.
And just to tie it all back to the op/thread, yes, we are to strive to be holy as the Father is Holy - and I can attest that we Definitely need Jesus's help to make any headway in that direction (no one can come to the Father except thru me...), and Jesus is waiting at every moment for us to just ask him/share with Him/be with Him!
Re fragrance, I would have not gone back after this pastor's sermon:
(You can't make this stuff up,that this is how people have thought for centuries.)
"Our Father receives all these acts asfragrant sacrifices and offerings. They reach to His nostrils and the Lord rejoices, the angels dance, the Holy Spirit rejoices because our Father is well pleased, the incense has been lit, the fire is burning and the perfect sacrifice, the blood that speaks a better word
than the blood of Abel (Hebrews 12:24) is set to be shed. The perfect offering is so sweet and fragrant a sacrifice to the Father that it has the power to cover
and remove the sin of all humankind for all time."
I will agree with others - this is a blood cult. Frankincense is not what he is talking about.
yes. It's referring to a burnt offering -- the fragrance of it, God called it pleasant. (Lev 1:17, 3:16) It involves killing an animal as an offering and presenting it on an altar. Jesus took the place of the lamb that was ritually sacrificed for the forgiveness of sin. Faith in him, the Lamb of God, removes our sin.
Quote:
For newbies, fyi - I adore God, the Creator of All That Is--and this idea of Him is nuts.
One reason I can no longer call myself a Christian is cuz of these beliefs that God actually
neeeeeeded goat killings, His son tortured, and ever anyblood sacrifices... as if we are ancient Mayans or Incas!
God didn't "neeeeeeeeded goat killings," etc....but he commanded that as his covenant. He did it for us.
Quote:
I can't imitate the idea of the Christian God, sorry BF.
I feel He is still a made up idea
by children as if alone on an island...yes, a ref to 'Lord of the Flies', 1954.
But, I repeat, I know all the Fundies here have good intentions, I do.
I understand. And I plead with you to consider it.
Having said that, the entire passage, including the chapter after these verses speaks of how we ought to love and serve Jesus out of gratitude, because of what he's done for us. He displayed an incredible love for us, and we should obey him out of love, and serve others out of love.
Ha - thanks for trying. Was hoping to get a response from V6Cruiser, but he bailed.
This verse might help you - 1 Timothy 4:14 ; so in the letter/verse Paul was REMINDING of what had already previously occurred (tradition), obviously, by context. Would be interesting to discuss exactly what 'gift' he was being reminded not to neglect - as by context it wouldn't have been a baptism or a healing of the sick - neither usually done by council elders/presbytery.
I get it. I'm assuming you're Catholic? If not, I apologize. But I think the angle you're going for is the argument of apostolic succession? My pastor was ordained by a laying on of hands. He is an ordained minister. He was ordained by men that were ordained in the same way.
The NT letters are a collection of letters written by the apostles, all commissioned by Jesus. Their words were recorded for us. We would do well to heed them.
. I've been amazed to watch all the bunny trails go
in different directions afterward.
You're not kiddin' ! Always so funny how someone's heart could have been so innocent---
and now here we are going off on so many other points of interest in the verses.
Happens all the time...do you know people now think in my Santa thread
he is evil and kills trillions**?
LOL
**Correction: "So even if you don't like Santa & the materialistic nonsense that
destroys trillions of lives every year...."
I don't read this particular poster and went off someone else's post who misunderstood.
Last edited by Miss Hepburn; 10-18-2019 at 08:21 AM..
You're not kiddin' ! Always so funny how someone's heart could have been so innocent---
and now here we are going off on so many other points of interest in the verses.
Happens all the time...do you know people now think in my Santa thread he is evil and kills trillions?
LOL
yes. It's referring to a burnt offering -- the fragrance of it, God called it pleasant. (Lev 1:17, 3:16) It involves killing an animal
as an offering and presenting it on an altar. Jesus took the place of the lamb that was ritually
sacrificed for the forgiveness of sin. -Yes, my point exactly.
Faith in him, the Lamb of God, removes our sin. -I know this. Even atheists know this belief. Nothing new anyone. Disagreeing doesn't mean we don't know this belief.
God didn't "neeeeeeeeded goat killings," etc....but he commanded that as his covenant.
He did it for us. -I see no difference; a Colonel commands, and thus, needs something done. Our minds work differently, BF.
I understand. And I plead with you to consider it.
Having said that, the entire passage, including the chapter after these verses speaks of how
we ought to love and serve Jesus out of gratitude, because of what he's done for us.
He displayed an incredible love for us, and we should obey him out of love, and serve others out of love. -I see, and because I do not think our Father God is ablood-thirsty monster you think I couldn't possibly love Him and Jesus? Is that what you think? Well, alrighty then.
Needed 10 characters to post in this area. So here they are.
Needed 10 characters to post in this area. So here they are.
You say you don't believe God is a "blood-thirsty monster". Neither do I. He's a loving, merciful, kind God. But he IS just. And he has said that the way to forgiveness is through blood. The wonderful thing is he provided the lamb for the sacrifice. We can think back to the story of Abraham and Isaac. As they were walking, Abraham told Isaac God would provide the sacrifice. Even if he HAD gone through with it, Hebrews 11:19 says "He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back."
The reason for that? It pointed forward so beautifully to Jesus being the sacrifice God provided. Once and for all, THAT one sacrifice accomplished salvation for all who believe. God is not some blood-thirsty monster. The sacrifice has been accepted already. He's not looking for us to offer anything but faith.
I get it. I'm assuming you're Catholic? If not, I apologize. But I think the angle you're going for is the argument of apostolic succession? My pastor was ordained by a laying on of hands. He is an ordained minister. He was ordained by men that were ordained in the same way.
The NT letters are a collection of letters written by the apostles, all commissioned by Jesus. Their words were recorded for us. We would do well to heed them.
I was indeed raised Catholic, fell away early on, then slowly brought back to Love of Christ thru combination of 'hard knocks of life' AND fellowship of many good brethren of all faith backgrounds and creeds.
Labels mean nothing to me anymore - I look for what is in the heart, and strive every moment to fill mine AND others with nothing but HIM!
I'll try and share what I've experienced/learned along the way and am always open to hear & learn others personal experiences along their own unique path.
God created each and every one of us; who am I to judge?
You're not kiddin' ! Always so funny how someone's heart could have been so innocent---
and now here we are going off on so many other points of interest in the verses.
Happens all the time...do you know people now think in my Santa thread
he is evil and kills trillions**?
LOL
**Correction: "So even if you don't like Santa & the materialistic nonsense that
destroys trillions of lives every year...."
I don't read this particular poster and went off someone else's post who misunderstood.
I've been avoiding that thread. Maybe I am missing some entertainment!
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So here they are.
