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And of course there are billions who lived after Jesus who lived in parts of the world where there simply was no knowledge of either a promise of a deliverer to come or a belief that such a thing ever took place.
This is true. I see three possible ways of looking at this.
1) God in his omniscience has always known who would respond to the gospel message and who wouldn't. But even more basically, God knew who would and who wouldn't have an interest in knowing about the true God once they became mentally developed enough to conceive of the concept of a divine being.
Therefore God steered human history in such a way so that wherever there would be individuals, no matter how geographically isolated they may be, who would have a desire to know about the true God, they would have an opportunity to hear the gospel about Jesus. On the other hand, where God knew that there was no interest among the people of some geographic region in knowing about the true God, he had no responsibility to get the gospel to them since he knew there would be no positive response to the gospel.
Or
2) Those who never had the opportunity to hear the gospel about Jesus will have an opportunity after they die to receive Jesus as Savior.
The bottom line is that no one can provide any actual empirical evidence of how salvation could possibly work before the person of Jesus was crucified as the sacrifice. Not one iota. Invoking verses from Psalms etc. merely is to create an ambiguous association rather than doctrinal truth. Very unfortunate. A big gaping hole in Christian theology.
Let me guess. You are a skeptic attempting to debunk Christianity.
The bottom line is that no one can provide any actual empirical evidence of how salvation could possibly work before the person of Jesus was crucified as the sacrifice. Not one iota. Invoking verses from Psalms etc. merely is to create an ambiguous association rather than doctrinal truth. Very unfortunate. A big gaping hole in Christian theology.
are you looking for a cubic foot of Spiritual Event?
The bottom line is that no one can provide any actual empirical evidence of how salvation could possibly work before the person of Jesus was crucified as the sacrifice. Not one iota. Invoking verses from Psalms etc. merely is to create an ambiguous association rather than doctrinal truth. Very unfortunate. A big gaping hole in Christian theology.
The bottom line is that no one can provide any actual empirical evidence of how salvation could possibly work before the person of Jesus was crucified as the sacrifice. Not one iota. Invoking verses from Psalms etc. merely is to create an ambiguous association rather than doctrinal truth. Very unfortunate. A big gaping hole in Christian theology.
Hmmm. Not quite sure how that would work. Also, doesn't it negate the idea of free will?
God's foreknowledge doesn't negate a person's free will (I actually prefer the term 'volition.') It simply means that God knew ahead of time how a person would choose regarding some issue. And being God he has the ability to work his plan and bring about his purpose regardless of human or angelic opposition. How the first option would work is simply that God would inspire missionary activity to go into areas where positive volition exists in some part of a community.
But, I don't have a problem with door #2.
Last edited by Michael Way; 06-27-2021 at 05:14 PM..
Christianity is a part of the creation that has been created by the creator, but we are told the wise become foolish because of their “imaginations”, and end up worshipping the creation above/more than the creator
Imagination is this
G1261***(Strong)
διαλογισμός
dialogismos
dee-al-og-is-mos'
From G1260; discussion, that is, (internal) consideration (by implication purpose), or (external) debate: - dispute, doubtful (-ing), imagination, reasoning, thought.
Rom 1:19**Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20**For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21**Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22**Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23**And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24**Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25**Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
The human being is special because of our abilities of intellect, planning, reasoning, creative, etc and empathy, compassion, restraint, etc
But if we look around at the world we are certainly not living up to our potential as yet
Rom 8:18**For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19**For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20**For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21**Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22**For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23**And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
There is no shortage or failure of human rationalization to explain whatever is desired to believe BapFun. If what Michael says is true there never would be a need for an actual Jesus as long as the FAITH that there is one is what saves.
There is no shortage or failure of human rationalization to explain whatever is desired to believe BapFun. If what Michael says is true there never would be a need for an actual Jesus as long as the FAITH that there is one is what saves.
It's not the faith, but the object of the faith that is the issue. Faith is simply the means by which one appropriates the free gift of salvation which Jesus made possible by his work on the cross.
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