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Jehovah God or Yahweh ,has much reasons to be angry. yet he still loved humans enough to want to save us from eternal death. by sending his son to replace what Adam did, which caused our lives ,(1Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive). but it's NOT just the fact that he's upset with our sinful, abominating and immoral acts. he's really angry with that ONE wicked selfish Angel who believed he could be like God ,(Isa. 14:12-14 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High).
Jehovah God is mainly angry at satan for trying to turn Jehovah's creations against. and he has succeeded in having MANY refusing to acknowledge Jehovah God. he told Eve basically...God lied!, if you eat from a certain tree you will NOT die. where is Adam and Eve now? DEAD! humans was to live forever on a paradise like Earth. this is why Jehovah God told the first couple to be "fruitful ,fill the Earth." Adam who being the Father of ALL Humans, partook of that fruit also. thus bringing sin and death to ALL of his offspring, US!, by disobeying God. Jehovah didn't "surrenders his omni-attributes to give man free will." he gave free will to the first couple and the Angels before sin even enter the world, everyone was Perfect! he gave Laws, but NOT trying to control.
he gave us "Free Will" ,hoping we use it in the RIGHT way, (Gal. 5:13 For you have been called to live in freedom, my brothers and sisters. But don’t use your freedom to satisfy your sinful nature. Instead, use your freedom to serve one another in love). satan took our "freewill", and used it for his advantage! he put in the minds of humans, we can do WHATEVER we want. even if it goes against the God that Created us and sent his Son to die for our sins. Jehovah's original plan was that Mankind Live forever on a peaceful Earth. satan might had change God's plans TEMPORARY!, satan knows this!
but Jehovah won't allow ANYTHING he said would happen to go void ,(Isa. 5:11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it). sin, ALL those who REFUSE to do Jesus Father's WILL, living as they please ,(1Cor. 6:9,10 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God), will be done away with.
satan and his demons can NEVER enter Heaven again. they were kicked out straight to Earth! (Rev. 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him). those in Heaven are Happy that they're gone ,(Rev. 12:10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God).
soon they will be removed ,(Rev. 20:10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever). and God's original plan will take place ,(Psa. 37:9-11 For evildoers shall be cut off; But those who wait on the Lord, They shall inherit the earth. For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more; Indeed, you will look carefully for his place, But it shall be no more. But the meek shall inherit the earth, And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace). see also (Rev.21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away). Peace
To review a centuries-old debate, there is great difficulty in trying to explain why God, with His all-encompassing knowledge, power and goodness, should be angered by the actions of people. Anger is the result of not getting your way. If God is angry, something must have happened to thwart His desire . . . and that flies in the face of God's omni-attributes.
At this point, someone says, "Yes, but God voluntarily surrenders his omni-attributes to give man free will - - the ability to thwart the holy desire."
My answer to that is this: If God wants to surrender His Omni-attributes for the sake of free will, while allowing all the sin he foresaw in ages past to continue unchecked, then God's desire is not thwarted, and one wonders what there could be to be angry about.
Jehovah states very clearly He will have no other gods before Him, so no His Godship as you call it will always be no matter who He chooses to sit on His throne. Since He obviously has free will, and all the angels were created with free will, when He chose to create man in His image, they too were given free will.
Free will and predestination are logically incompatible. Free will means "under no compulsion", and compulsion is everywhere in world that is predestined.
Created man is a will. The Creator of the created wee wills is the Will of all wills.
“To argue that God is 'trying His best' to save all mankind, but that the majority of men will not let Him save them, is to insist that the will of the Creator is impotent, and that the will of the creature is omnipotent.” ~A. W. Pink
For the remainder of your life, you will be tested for fitness to enter the Kingdom of God. Your choices will be used to make that determinations. A free pass is also available.
For the remainder of your life, you will be tested for fitness to enter the Kingdom of God. Your choices will be used to make that determinations. A free pass is also available.
This is only a test.
-----
Without God, life is a dirty trick.
Entering the Kingdom of God is NOT on the basis of fitness but solely on His love, grace, and mercy.
To review a centuries-old debate, there is great difficulty in trying to explain why God, with His all-encompassing knowledge, power and goodness, should be angered by the actions of people. Anger is the result of not getting your way. If God is angry, something must have happened to thwart His desire . . . and that flies in the face of God's omni-attributes.
At this point, someone says, "Yes, but God voluntarily surrenders his omni-attributes to give man free will - - the ability to thwart the holy desire."
My answer to that is this: If God wants to surrender His Omni-attributes for the sake of free will, while allowing all the sin he foresaw in ages past to continue unchecked, then God's desire is not thwarted, and one wonders what there could be to be angry about.
No. It's heretical to state that God ceased being God.
But since the fall, man has been slave to sin. It corrupts every fiber of our being. The good news is that Scripture tells us that God regenerates his elect and allows them to look at him without the clouded vision of sin -- and we freely choose him. (John 1:12-13, Ephesians 1, Romans 8, 9)
Your example of how free will and predestination are compatible is that God told David what would happen if David did X. So David did Y instead, and so something different happened. You used the term "foresaw" to describe how God projected hypothetically for David what would have happened if X.
That's not foreseeing, that's analyzing a purely abstract, what-if scenario. It was never a viable future because God knew beforehand that Y, and not X, would happen. To foresee is to know what will happen, and so Y (the thing that happened) was the thing foreseen, not X (the thing that didn't happen).
If you hold on faith that David's choice was free I respect that. But I don't see a rational basis for calling it free when it was chiseled in stone from before time began.
It's foreknowledge. Or omniscience if you want to restrict God's foreknowledge to actual future events while omniscience deals with both the actual and the potential future. God knows everything concerning future events, both what actually will happen and what would have happened if a different course of action had been taken. Put another way, God knows what decisions you will make concerning some situation and how events will turn out as a result of your decision, and He knows all of the alternative decisions you might have made and how events would have turned out as a result of those alternative decisions. God knows the actual future and the potential future.
Last edited by Michael Way; 08-26-2021 at 09:08 AM..
Man is given the opportunity to choose, and in choosing changes his direction that has the pottential to change others as well.
God gives me direction, but I still have the power to decide whether to do it or not.
Usually, in following His direction there are blessings that fallow, but I do not do for the blessing, but that a need He had directed me to meet is being met with what He provides me.
If I do not seek His influence, then needs that He would otherwise provide to those seeking His intervention may not be met by me, either not at all, or met by someone more obedient than I.
There are those that live inconsequential lives without God's influence whatsoever, by their own choice. They may believe in God but choose no personal relationship. Satan also believes in God but has no personal relationship.
God knows my paths and all the different avenues my paths can take, both if I go my own way or choose His influence.
I can frustrate God's grace if I vacillate in my devotion, wanting the best of both worlds so to speak.
I think that there are times man pushes God's mercy well past it's limits and consequences must be rendered.
I remember as a child when being punished my mother hated having to do it but it was necessary for my development.
God takes no pleasure in rath.
But man's rebellion demands it.
God takes no pleasure in rath.
But man's rebellion demands it.
NONSENSE!
Man is a rebel, but the Father of all fathers demands no such thing.
Perhaps you are unaware of who made mankind "subject to futility not willingly" ?
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