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Ccc makes some good points about how we are to handle ourselves
Part of being a Christian is holding on to the good and true and not aligning ourselves with what is not, while we are human and will always have beliefs, notions, ideas that are not absolutely true, or don’t align with others opinions, beliefs, doctrines what we are to hold on to is our personal integrity, honesty, etc and I’m pretty sure that we can not go back, we can agree to disagree, understand others have different ways, etc
If you were in the wrong, and see that now, absolutely you would need to ask forgiveness to be admitted back to their congregation, but if you still feel you did nothing wrong to be DF’ed you can’t compromise your integrity that caused the rift in the first place between you and the JW organisation. And being DF’ed the way the JW’s do it is just plain wrong in my opinion, that is not part of Jesus teachings. What we are to do is not hold on to the past though, I believe we should put it into perspective, we can be remorseful and repent which means changing, and then move forward, you can still be true to the perspectives that you believe are correct that you received from that organisation.
I didn't tell CC that I have forgiven all of them, which I have of course. Matter of fact I personally wrote each individual involved a forgiveness letter, and I pray regularly for them not to be held to accounts for it. However, we are taught that not all in the Christian congregation are good associates, I seriously doubt that Jesus would have continued to have close association with Judas, although I believe he would very well forgive him and perhaps their differences could be mended in time by Judas life course post sin. Keep in mind that Jesus was perfect. I too believe that I could resume a close relationship if I sincerely seen repentance in an individual. Then too remember what Jesus told those leaders of the faith who persecuted him? You see Kat, he did that because they knew God and they deliberately persecuted His chosen one, Jesus begged Jehovah to forgive those ignorant in their sins involved with his death. Those of my faith who deliberately manipulated me are in the same boat, they know God and what He requires, yet they have chosen to act in a way unpleasing to Him, I have forgiven them, and beg Jehovah to overlook it as well, but not to allow them to abuse other sheep of the congregation. I sincerely hope that they gain life and that Jehovah does not hold it against them. At this point in my life, I would not form a close bond with any of those who were involved with my disfellowshipping, unless I personally seen true repentance on their part. I would however be there to help them if they came into need if I am able.
Do you believe that you have to be attached to the Watchtower in some way or can you go off on your own and serve Yahweh?
I think compassion is greatly helped by understanding. The JWs look bizarre by most people's standards but having been inside I know where they are coming from. They are told to shun you or face discipline themselves. Some of them are haughty about it but there are JWs that refuse to shun tho they are few. Shunning is abuse and I think some people inside the organization sense that. On the reddit sub I go to a young 20something gay, atheist young man had disassociated himself. He was to go meet his elder dad at a restaurant and we all tried to support him as we knew he was about to lose his whole family. He comes back on after that meeting with his dad and told us his dad said this :"no one is going to tell me I can't talk to my own son". Wow.
If it turns out what I said about the Watchtower joining the UN as an NGO was true how would you feel about that?
The problem with your view is the people are not naturally all bad or good. There are people who do little to no good and a lot of bad and we need some rules to try to control them after the fact. But there are some good people who do little to no bad and a lot of good and there are people in all shades of grey between them.
The driver is our selfishness and survival mandate which IS automatic but we need to develop our spirit with other motivations to override the automatic when it is desirable to do so. Religion played that role in providing other motivations. There has been no adequate or equivalent replacement yet.
Actually, Romans 3:10-18 states otherwise. "as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”"
You can pretend to be basically good, but even your agape-loving self is as rude as anyone on this forum. For a guy that claims to be all about the Christ consciousness, you have demonstrated many times that you have the ability to sin in the way you treat others.
Now...do we do good things? Sure. Are we good? Only through the power of Jesus.
Actually, Romans 3:10-18 states otherwise. "as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Why do you fundies have so much difficulty realizing that what is written back then applied to our savage ancestors back then!!! It is easy to understand those primitive savages who could stone people to death or so brutally scourge and crucify another human being would be as described by Paul! What do you not understand about the New Covenant that was instituted by Jesus on the Cross?
We now have the Comforter to guide us to the Truth God has "written in our hearts." We also have the unambiguous demonstration of God's Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness as revealed by Jesus on the Cross to understand God's True Nature. Our ancestors could not even imagine a God who was NOT wrathful since they attributed every single negative thing that happened to God's wrath, even what they themselves did. The same applied to what was good. It was attributed to God's favor. We should have outgrown that centuries ago.
Quote:
You can pretend to be basically good, but even your agape-loving self is as rude as anyone on this forum. For a guy that claims to be all about the Christ consciousness, you have demonstrated many times that you have the ability to sin in the way you treat others.
I am not Christ and I make no claims to be remotely close to being like Him so your criticisms of me are irrelevant to Christ's actual Good News Gospel.
I heard something today that reminded me of the battle between justice and mercy. I wonder if that affects a person's religious beliefs. Do you believe human beings are mostly good or mostly wicked or is it something else entirely? Do you think it reflects on your religious views or do you think it is a product of your religious views? I believe people are mostly good. I don't think there is even such a thing as a straight good person or a wicked person except for a few on the fringes on either side of that.
We're just human beings. Capable of much positive productivity and creativity, but also much destruction.
It's all in how we live our lives while on the temporary "stage of life". We have freedom, but need to choose wisely. The use and choice of our minds and actions will reveal ourselves, not humanity as a whole. I don't want to get credit for positives others do that I haven't done, nor to I want to get slammed for errors and evils that others do that I won't.
P.S. Religion doesn't necessarily dictate one direction or the other. We see completely non-religious people doing wonderful things, and highly religious people stirring up tons of trouble, as well as the opposites.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 09-17-2021 at 11:16 AM..
We're just human beings. Capable of much positive productivity and creativity, but also much destruction.
It's all in how we "steer our ship" while on the temporary "stage of life" we walk upon. We have freedom, but need to choose wisely.................
Yes, agree that we have freedom, and we should use our freedom to act responsibly towards God, His will and purpose.
I find we ' steer our ship ' but that does Not have to mean a temporary walk......
Adam was promised everlasting life of living forever (aka a permanent walk) on a beautiful paradisical Earth.
Jesus came to undo all the damage Satan and Adam brought upon humanity.
Because we can't resurrect oneself or another we needed someone who can resurrect us. Jesus can and will - Rev. 1:18.
Sure, some are called to heavenly life, and they have a first or earlier resurrection - Rev. 20:6; Rev.2:10; Rev. 5:9-10.
Whereas, the majority of mankind can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection to live life on Earth.
Starting with Jesus' coming * Glory Time * found at Matthew 25:31-33,37 the figurative humble ' sheep ' can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth and be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' coming thousand-year governmental reign over Earth when even ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth - 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8.
So, as was offered to Adam before his downfall, the majority of mankind are also offered an 'everlasting walk on the stage of everlasting life' and see the return of a beautified paradisical Earth as Eden originally was.
P.S. Religion doesn't necessarily dictate one direction or the other. We see completely non-religious people doing wonderful things, and highly religious people stirring up tons of trouble, as well as the opposites.
Religion itself doesn't necessarily dictate..... but Jesus stressed ' worship ' <- John 4:23-24.
Jesus stressed ' true worship ' which does Not stir up trouble as many of the world's religions have.
Any one can be a 'neighborly good Samaritan' ( showing practical love to another in trouble )
But only Jesus' genuine followers would also internationally be proclaiming the Good News of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
No atheist goes around telling others about God Kingdom ( Daniel 2:44 ) is the real solution to today's global problems.
Because we are in the last days of badness on Earth it seems that most humans are putting themselves in the figurative haughty ' goat ' category found at Matthew 25:31-33; 2nd Timothy 3:1-5,13
How Jesus sees such unfavorable ones is found at Isaiah 11:3-4; Rev. 19:14-15
Along with angelic armies, the 'executional sword-like words' from Jesus' mouth will rid the Earth of the wicked.
Yes, agree that we have freedom, and we should use our freedom to act responsibly towards God, His will and purpose.
I find we ' steer our ship ' but that does Not have to mean a temporary walk......
Adam was promised everlasting life of living forever (aka a permanent walk) on a beautiful paradisical Earth.
Jesus came to undo all the damage Satan and Adam brought upon humanity.
Because we can't resurrect oneself or another we needed someone who can resurrect us. Jesus can and will - Rev. 1:18.
Sure, some are called to heavenly life, and they have a first or earlier resurrection - Rev. 20:6; Rev.2:10; Rev. 5:9-10.
Whereas, the majority of mankind can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection to live life on Earth.
Starting with Jesus' coming * Glory Time * found at Matthew 25:31-33,37 the figurative humble ' sheep ' can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth and be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' coming thousand-year governmental reign over Earth when even ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth - 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8.
So, as was offered to Adam before his downfall, the majority of mankind are also offered an 'everlasting walk on the stage of everlasting life' and see the return of a beautified paradisical Earth as Eden originally was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4
Religion itself doesn't necessarily dictate..... but Jesus stressed ' worship ' <- John 4:23-24.
Jesus stressed ' true worship ' which does Not stir up trouble as many of the world's religions have.
Any one can be a 'neighborly good Samaritan' ( showing practical love to another in trouble )
But only Jesus' genuine followers would also internationally be proclaiming the Good News of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
No atheist goes around telling others about God Kingdom ( Daniel 2:44 ) is the real solution to today's global problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4
Because we are in the last days of badness on Earth it seems that most humans are putting themselves in the figurative haughty ' goat ' category found at Matthew 25:31-33; 2nd Timothy 3:1-5,13
How Jesus sees such unfavorable ones is found at Isaiah 11:3-4; Rev. 19:14-15
Along with angelic armies, the 'executional sword-like words' from Jesus' mouth will rid the Earth of the wicked.
This is how you see human beings? Because it sounds more like brainwashing, lest you be destroyed.
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