Our new relationship to the law. (testimony, believing, sinned, Jesus)
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Jesus did NOT come to earth as a human to be scourged and crucified to satisfy His Father's wrath and vengeance and OFFER us salvation from Hell. That is barbaric preposterous nonsense. He came to bring God's Holy Spirit to His human Spirit and connect us all permanently to God. He didn't just OFFER salvation, He SAVED us all from our separation from God, NOT from some non-existent Hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
See 1 Corinthians 1:18,21.
That ACTUALLY refers to the belief that it was foolish for Jesus to allow them to scourge and crucify Him unjustly for no reason. To the wise and prudent of that era, if He was who He said He was He should have saved Himself and brought the wrath of God down on the Romans!
The foolishness does NOT refer to our ancestors' absurdly barbaric belief that God needed to scourge and crucify Himself as a human to appease His wrath and enable Him to forgive us for "whatever," because that truly IS unquestionably and unbelievably foolishness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
God does indeed have wrath against sin; which was satisfied in the Cross of Jesus Christ.
Our ancestors believed ALL negative consequences were the result of the wrath of God. But they were wrong. There ARE negative spiritual consequences but they are NOT the result of God's nonexistent wrath. God wants us to avoid them. He is NOT imposing them.
That ACTUALLY refers to the belief that it was foolish for Jesus to allow them to scourge and crucify Him unjustly for no reason. To the wise and prudent of that era, if He was who He said He was He should have saved Himself and brought the wrath of God down on the Romans!
The foolishness does NOT refer to our ancestors' absurdly barbaric belief that God needed to scourge and crucify Himself as a human to appease His wrath and enable Him to forgive us for "whatever," because that truly IS unquestionably and unbelievably foolishness.
It is unquestionably foolishness to you because you are perishing.
It is the preaching of the Cross that is foolishness to those who are perishing; and included in the preaching of the Cross is the very biblical concept that Jesus died in our place and took the penalty for our sins.
Without accepting this truth of holy scripture, you will unquestionably be lost; and thrown into hell on your day of judgment.
That ACTUALLY refers to the belief that it was foolish for Jesus to allow them to scourge and crucify Him unjustly for no reason. To the wise and prudent of that era, if He was who He said He was He should have saved Himself and brought the wrath of God down on the Romans!
The foolishness does NOT refer to our ancestors' absurdly barbaric belief that God needed to scourge and crucify Himself as a human to appease His wrath and enable Him to forgive us for "whatever," because that truly IS unquestionably and unbelievably foolishness.
Our ancestors believed ALL negative consequences were the result of the wrath of God. But they were wrong. There ARE negative spiritual consequences but they are NOT the result of God's nonexistent wrath. God wants us to avoid them. He is NOT imposing them.
Amen! I remember being in a meeting years ago and a dear old brother stood up and shared something he witnessed in his younger years. At an outreach in some town, there was a man mocking christians and God, a few days later they hear the man mocking them dropped down dead. The dear old brother was convinced that the Lord struck him down.
The mockers....He saved others but he can't save himself.
Jesus........ Forgive them they don't know what they are doing.
That ACTUALLY refers to the belief that it was foolish for Jesus to allow them to scourge and crucify Him unjustly for no reason. To the wise and prudent of that era, if He was who He said He was He should have saved Himself and brought the wrath of God down on the Romans!
The foolishness does NOT refer to our ancestors' absurdly barbaric belief that God needed to scourge and crucify Himself as a human to appease His wrath and enable Him to forgive us for "whatever," because that truly IS unquestionably and unbelievably foolishness.
Our ancestors believed ALL negative consequences were the result of the wrath of God. But they were wrong. There ARE negative spiritual consequences but they are NOT the result of God's nonexistent wrath. God wants us to avoid them. He is NOT imposing them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
It is unquestionably foolishness to you because you are perishing.
It is the preaching of the Cross that is foolishness to those who are perishing; and included in the preaching of the Cross is the very biblical concept that Jesus died in our place and took the penalty for our sins.
Without accepting this truth of holy scripture, you will unquestionably be lost; and thrown into hell on your day of judgment.
My dear brother, JBF. I know that you believe this with all your heart and you are sincerely worried that I am wrong about Jesus and God so I appreciate your love. But I am afraid that it is you who will have to account for leading so many to fear a wrathful God instead of our loving Abba as revealed by Jesus. Either way, there will only be a temporary chastisement and refinement for whoever of us is wrong, NOT an eternal hell.
My dear brother, JBF. I know that you believe this with all your heart and you are sincerely worried that I am wrong about Jesus and God so I appreciate your love. But I am afraid that it is you who will have to account for leading so many to fear a wrathful God instead of our loving Abba as revealed by Jesus. Either way, there will only be a temporary chastisement and refinement for whoever of us is wrong, NOT an eternal hell.
God's punishment for sin is everlasting (Matthew 25:46) and if anyone does not avail themselves of the forgiveness provided for in the Cross, they will face that punishment without a doubt.
In order to appropriate that forgiveness you have to believe in it.
That is, you must believe that Jesus died on the Cross in your place, taking upon Himself the penalty for your sins.
And it is not so much wrath as it is justice that I believe motivates God to cast people into the lake of fire on the final day.
And justice is according to love; it acts as a deterrent against people committing sinful acts that are unloving in their final estimation.
God's punishment for sin is everlasting (Matthew 25:46) and if anyone does not avail themselves of the forgiveness provided for in the Cross, they will face that punishment without a doubt.
In order to appropriate that forgiveness you have to believe in it.
That is, you must believe that Jesus died on the Cross in your place, taking upon Himself the penalty for your sins.
And it is not so much wrath as it is justice that I believe motivates God to cast people into the lake of fire on the final day.
And justice is according to love; it acts as a deterrent against people committing sinful acts that are unloving in their final estimation.
What kind of Spirit you have become will determine what you face, JBF, NOT what "precepts and doctrines of men" you believe! You are in for a very rude awakening because your mind and heart are filled with wrath and vengeance masquerading as justice.
Sound doctrine is important to salvation (1 Timothy 4:16).
But you do not test the doctrine by God's Holy Spirit of agape love as revealed and demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross to see that it is sound. You blindly accept it all as sound. That is NOT what study to show yourself approved means.
Blindly reading and accepting what our ancestors recorded without question or testing of its Spirit against the Holy Spirit is very dangerous, brother. That is why Jesus spent so much time describing the Holy Spirit and gave His life demonstrating it.
To have a relationship with the lawis to be in the same religion as Jesus, John, the disciples and Paul.
I dint know in Christian in here that can speak of the law, they certainly dont know the religion of Jesus, dont even know what is said and done during Gid's holy days.
But you do not test the doctrine by God's Holy Spirit of agape love as revealed and demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross to see that it is sound. You blindly accept it all as sound. That is NOT what study to show yourself approved means.
Blindly reading and accepting what our ancestors recorded without question or testing of its Spirit against the Holy Spirit is very dangerous, brother. That is why Jesus spent so much time describing the Holy Spirit and gave His life demonstrating it.
The early apostles (including Paul) were tested by the early church and found to be true (Revelation 2:2).
If the tree is good, then so is the fruit (Matthew 7:15-20).
Paul, who was found to be a true apostle, wrote the following.
2Ti 3:15, And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17, That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
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