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OnOurWay2MO: Could you give just one example of preterists "twisting of scripture?" Could you give just one example of preterists "reading into God's word what they wanted it to say?" If you are going to accuse, OnOurWay2MO, please state your charges clearly.
How do you know for sure that He IS coming at the last trump? What makes you think time will be no more? Do you know why you believe what you believe?
You say that you are SURE. But when preterists say they are sure, they are told by you [I am assuming you are speaking particularly of preterists!] that perhaps WE should humble OURSELVES and realize that WE might just be wrong? Does not that attitude also apply to you? Can one ever justly come to a place where he says he is sure? You seem so sure about certain things, yet you give no biblical support for your certainty. Also, I as a preterist do NOT ever assume that I have the truth. But the conclusions (that are always open to re-evaluation) I have reached have resulted from YEARS of hours of indepth prayer, study and analysis. I do not take the conclusions I have reached lightly. BUT the Bible makes it clear that we CAN come to and should come to the place where we "rightly divide" the word of truth! ALL the accusations against me and preterism have been based on the "I think" approach and not sound biblical supports. Your own post is evidence of that!
When did preterists say that THIS is the new heaven and new earth? When? Again, please state your charges clearly or do not make them. You had to "laugh" because you are not understanding what preterism teaches!
Furthermore, Satan is NOT ruling this world. Paul in admonishing his brethren to "note those who cause divisions and offenses," said:
"The God of peace will crush Satan under YOUR feet SHORTLY" (Romans 16:20). If Satan was to be crushed SHORTLY under THEIR feet in Paul's day, why does he yet reign today?
Lastly, who is in control of this earth, OnOurWay2MO? If God wants this world to continue forever, does He not have the power to preserve it? If God wants this earth to continue forever, what is that to us? Why does this world have to end other than because of a wrong understanding of scripture which teaches it must?
Preterist
I don't have time to get into all this right now, it was not here that I was reading twisting of scripture, but elsewhere. About reading things into God's word which it does not say, I was referring to a belief in universalism, (which many preterists seem to believe in but I guess not all).
How do I know for SURE He is coming at the last trump, well comparing scripture shows us that, unless I am reading into things that are'nt there.
1Cr 15:51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,1Cr 15:52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Go to Revelation at the last trump and there you have it. Do things really need to be so complicated that only few can understand it? It says there should be time no longer, does that mean our literal time? When the seventh trumpet begins to sound the mystery is finished.
Rev 10:6And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Rev 10:7But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
As pertaining to humbling ourselves, yes, I mean myself as well. I am not the type to just put things off because other people say it is hogwash, I research, study, and pray myself. Because I also may just be wrong, but how am I to know unless I seek the Lord and study His word? I see now where you are coming from now that you have said so.
Ok, I was laughing about a youtube video I watched which did imply this is the new heaven and earth, but it is all spiritual. Maybe you all are'nt united in all parts of preterism?
Satans power was shattered at Jesus' resurrection, he has no stronghold on those in Christ, but he still works in children of disobedience.
Eph 2:2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Why does this world have to end... because God is just and will not let our foes continue to persecute us. Satan and they will be thrown into the lake of fire, which I am assuming you don't believe in a literal lake of fire?
I don't have time to get into all this right now, it was not here that I was reading twisting of scripture, but elsewhere. About reading things into God's word which it does not say, I was referring to a belief in universalism, (which many preterists seem to believe in but I guess not all).
How do I know for SURE He is coming at the last trump, well comparing scripture shows us that, unless I am reading into things that are'nt there.
1Cr 15:51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,1Cr 15:52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Go to Revelation at the last trump and there you have it. Do things really need to be so complicated that only few can understand it? It says there should be time no longer, does that mean our literal time? When the seventh trumpet begins to sound the mystery is finished.
Rev 10:6And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Rev 10:7But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
As pertaining to humbling ourselves, yes, I mean myself as well. I am not the type to just put things off because other people say it is hogwash, I research, study, and pray myself. Because I also may just be wrong, but how am I to know unless I seek the Lord and study His word? I see now where you are coming from now that you have said so.
Ok, I was laughing about a youtube video I watched which did imply this is the new heaven and earth, but it is all spiritual. Maybe you all are'nt united in all parts of preterism?
Satans power was shattered at Jesus' resurrection, he has no stronghold on those in Christ, but he still works in children of disobedience.
Eph 2:2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Why does this world have to end... because God is just and will not let our foes continue to persecute us. Satan and they will be thrown into the lake of fire, which I am assuming you don't believe in a literal lake of fire?
First of all, OnOurWay2MO, MOST preterists are NOT universalists. Frankly, I was amazed when I first heard that there were universalist preterists. I could not and still do not understand how they arrive at such an erroneous conclusion. This is a fringe group which is constantly being held to account by mainstream preterists. Every group has its radicals I suppose.
Furthermore, I do believe in a lake of fire. Whether this is metaphoric language for the anguish one suffers under the eternal "fiery" judgment of God to the point of eternal torment, I am not sure. I do believe in eternal punishment for the wicked--whether actual flames of fire of not! God's eternal wrath says it all. Ephesians 2 which you quoted has to do with the time prior to Jesus' coming and casting Satan into the lake of fire (Rev. 20)--A. D. 70. It does not pertain to us today. All of the Revelation falls under the time restraints of those things which were in John's day to shortly take place because the time was then near (Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 10)!
The same is, therefore, true for Revelation 10. It is also confined to that time which in John's day was to shortly take place. What does Revelation 10:6 really say? The Greek word translated in the KJV as "time" is chronos. This has caused no small confusion! This is the same term used in Revelation 2:21 where Jesus declares that He gave "Jezebel" time (chronos) to repent. This deals not so much with the passage of actual time but with God's patience in giving her "opportunity" or "space" to repent. It is found also in Revelation 6:11 where the souls of "those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held" cried out, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" These are those whom Jesus predicted those Jews of His day would persecute and kill (Matthew 10, 23, 24). They are told to "rest a little while [chronos] longer." He was about to avenge their blood through the destruction of the temple and the city of Jerusalem (Babylon).
In Revelation 20, it is said of Satan that he "must be released for a little while [chronos, "season" in KJV]. It is translated in other places in the NT as "season," "space," "while," "delay, "tarry," etc. Nowhere does it speak of the end of time. When it is used as "time," it refers to a point in time or the fulfillment of an event. Of special interest is Hebrews 10:37--"For yet a little while, and He Who is coming will come and will not tarry" [or delay--chronos].
Who are the "we" of 1 Corinthians 15? Did Paul write these words to no one in particular or did he write them to real flesh-and-blood people of Corinth? 1 Corinthians is directed first of all . . . "to the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord" (1 Cor. 1:1). This is a circular letter sent first of all to the church in Corinth addressing several issues peculiar to them and then distributed to the other churches of THAT day.
Beginning in verse 50, Paul addresses directly his "brethren." He has just explained to THEM the nature of the resurrection and now reiterates that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." He then tells them a mystery, the mystery of God that is about to be finished (Rev. 10--in that time which was to SHORTLY take place in John's day).
"WE [Paul and his first-century fellow saints] shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet" (sounded in that time which was to SHORTLY take place in John's day)! "WE shall be changed." The significance of this first-person plural personal pronoun is found also in Paul's statements in 1 Thessalonians 4. Paul did not want those fellow brethren of his day "to be ignorant, concerning those who have fallen asleep lest YOU [his first-century brethren] sorrow as others who have no hope." What was their hope?
"WE [Paul and his first-century brethren] who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words." What comfort is there if these things have no bearing upon them personally? We must not overlook the huge significance of the personal pronouns!
[quote=Preterist;4609930]First of all, OnOurWay2MO, MOST preterists are NOT universalists. Frankly, I was amazed when I first heard that there were universalist preterists. I could not and still do not understand how they arrive at such an erroneous conclusion. This is a fringe group which is constantly being held to account by mainstream preterists. Every group has its radicals I suppose.
(Thank you for clarifying that, I must have went to one of the "radicals" websites.)
Furthermore, I do believe in a lake of fire. Whether this is metaphoric language for the anguish one suffers under the eternal "fiery" judgment of God to the point of eternal torment, I am not sure. I do believe in eternal punishment for the wicked--whether actual flames of fire of not! God's eternal wrath says it all. Ephesians 2 which you quoted has to do with the time prior to Jesus' coming and casting Satan into the lake of fire (Rev. 20)--A. D. 70. It does not pertain to us today. All of the Revelation falls under the time restraints of those things which were in John's day to shortly take place because the time was then near (Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 10)!
(Ok, thank you for clarifying, I guess I am getting mixed messages from different preterists)
The same is, therefore, true for Revelation 10. It is also confined to that time which in John's day was to shortly take place. What does Revelation 10:6 really say? The Greek word translated in the KJV as "time" is chronos. This has caused no small confusion! This is the same term used in Revelation 2:21 where Jesus declares that He gave "Jezebel" time (chronos) to repent. This deals not so much with the passage of actual time but with God's patience in giving her "opportunity" or "space" to repent. It is found also in Revelation 6:11 where the souls of "those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held" cried out, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" These are those whom Jesus predicted those Jews of His day would persecute and kill (Matthew 10, 23, 24). They are told to "rest a little while [chronos] longer." He was about to avenge their blood through the destruction of the temple and the city of Jerusalem (Babylon).
(You know, I looked up the Greek word for time there and did see that it means delay, I admit I was a bit dissapointed)
In Revelation 20, it is said of Satan that he "must be released for a little while [chronos, "season" in KJV]. It is translated in other places in the NT as "season," "space," "while," "delay, "tarry," etc. Nowhere does it speak of the end of time. When it is used as "time," it refers to a point in time or the fulfillment of an event. Of special interest is Hebrews 10:37--"For yet a little while, and He Who is coming will come and will not tarry" [or delay--chronos].
Who are the "we" of 1 Corinthians 15? Did Paul write these words to no one in particular or did he write them to real flesh-and-blood people of Corinth? 1 Corinthians is directed first of all . . . "to the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord" (1 Cor. 1:1). This is a circular letter sent first of all to the church in Corinth addressing several issues peculiar to them and then distributed to the other churches of THAT day.
(Ok, I see what you mean)
Beginning in verse 50, Paul addresses directly his "brethren." He has just explained to THEM the nature of the resurrection and now reiterates that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." He then tells them a mystery, the mystery of God that is about to be finished (Rev. 10--in that time which was to SHORTLY take place in John's day).
I guess this is where dispensationalists get their name from. So you believe the fulness of times has happend? Can you explain these verses from your point of view?
Eph 1:9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 1:10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:)
"WE [Paul and his first-century fellow saints] shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet" (sounded in that time which was to SHORTLY take place in John's day)! "WE shall be changed." The significance of this first-person plural personal pronoun is found also in Paul's statements in 1 Thessalonians 4. Paul did not want those fellow brethren of his day "to be ignorant, concerning those who have fallen asleep lest YOU [his first-century brethren] sorrow as others who have no hope." What was their hope?
"WE [Paul and his first-century brethren] who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words." What comfort is there if these things have no bearing upon them personally? We must not overlook the huge significance of the personal pronouns!
(Ah, I see. Thank you for taking the time to explain, I really appreciate it)
Satans power was shattered at Jesus' resurrection, he has no stronghold on those in Christ, but he still works in children of disobedience.
Why does this world have to end... because God is just and will not let our foes continue to persecute us. Satan and they will be thrown into the lake of fire, which I am assuming you don't believe in a literal lake of fire?
Matthew 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
OnOurWay2MO I had asked you earlier to explain about the above passage, but you weren't too interested, and I don't mean to go on about it and forgive me if I am out of bounds.
You said that Satans power was shattered at the resurrection, well it is only partly true, as it wasn't complete at this point. Satan still had power over His elect.
Notice the following:
Hebrews 8:13 In that He says, "A new [covenant,"] He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
The Jews that were in Christ were still part of the Old Covenant. It was "ready" to vanish. This was written 35 years after Christ's crucifixion. Although the new testament was in effect, the old had not fully vanished.
Mark 8:38 "For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels."
Mark 9:1 And He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power."
This Power did not come until after the resurrection.
There should not have been a chapter change here. It did not happen in the other two Gospels. Matthew 16:27-28
Hebrews 9:8-11 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. It [was] symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience -- [concerned] only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation. But Christ came [as] High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
Here we see by the above that the way into the "Holiest of all" was not made manifest, while the temple still stood. It was already determined for destruction "in that Generation". This is when Christ had fulfilled all prophesy. This is when He came in power, with the glory of the father, and Angels. 70 AD. The destruction of the Temple and the Jews who would not accept Christ. This whole scheme of things was finished. We are now in that spiritual kingdom, where satan has no power. He has power over denominations today, because he is their king, and they do not understand spiritual things. When satan was cast out, He was cast out of the kingdom of God. Satan still resides on Earth with the people of the world. The flesh, or carnal. Death and Hades were also cast out... of the kingdom. Does death still reside here on the fleshly earth. Yes. The same with Hades, the grave.
Now please read the above verse in Matthew 5. Not a dot or a tittle will pass from the law till heaven and earth pass. All had to be fulfilled.
Daniel 12:7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who [was] above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that [it shall be] for a time, times, and half [a time;] and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these [things] shall be finished.
[quote=Hiram;4627759]Matthew 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
OnOurWay2MO I had asked you earlier to explain about the above passage, but you weren't too interested, and I don't mean to go on about it and forgive me if I am out of bounds.
(I did answer you, I will see if I can find it, but I responded with asking which law he is talking about there. There are different laws, if he is referring to his moral law that he put into place through the 10 commandments, I believe those are still in place and we are to obey them. I think what was done away with was the daily sacrifices because He was now to become the sacrifice. I must not be understanding what you are getting at)
You said that Satans power was shattered at the resurrection, well it is only partly true, as it wasn't complete at this point. Satan still had power over His elect.
Notice the following:
Hebrews 8:13 In that He says, "A new [covenant,"] He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
The Jews that were in Christ were still part of the Old Covenant. It was "ready" to vanish. This was written 35 years after Christ's crucifixion. Although the new testament was in effect, the old had not fully vanished.
Mark 8:38 "For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels."
(I do not think that Mark 8:38 is referrring to His coming and resurrection, but to when He goes to the right hand of the Father. I looked up when "he cometh" and it means to go, to appear, etc. Could that not be a possibility?)
Mark 9:1 And He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power."
This Power did not come until after the resurrection.
There should not have been a chapter change here. It did not happen in the other two Gospels. Matthew 16:27-28
(Where do you see that the power did not come until after the resurrection? Could'nt it be referring to His transfiguration or the Holy Spirit coming at pentecost?)
Hebrews 9:8-11 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. It [was] symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience -- [concerned] only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation. But Christ came [as] High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
Here we see by the above that the way into the "Holiest of all" was not made manifest, while the temple still stood. It was already determined for destruction "in that Generation". This is when Christ had fulfilled all prophesy. This is when He came in power, with the glory of the father, and Angels. 70 AD. The destruction of the Temple and the Jews who would not accept Christ. This whole scheme of things was finished. We are now in that spiritual kingdom, where satan has no power. He has power over denominations today, because he is their king, and they do not understand spiritual things. When satan was cast out, He was cast out of the kingdom of God. Satan still resides on Earth with the people of the world. The flesh, or carnal. Death and Hades were also cast out... of the kingdom. Does death still reside here on the fleshly earth. Yes. The same with Hades, the grave.
(Was'nt it all fulfilled when He said "it is finished" on the cross? Maybe it is'nt referring to the actual temple destruction.
How can there still be death when in Revelation it says there is no death in the new heaven and earth? Rev 21:4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.)
Now please read the above verse in Matthew 5. Not a dot or a tittle will pass from the law till heaven and earth pass. All had to be fulfilled.
Daniel 12:7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who [was] above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that [it shall be] for a time, times, and half [a time;] and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these [things] shall be finished
(Possibly that prophecy was fulfilled then but maybe there is yet another to come for the future?)
Sorry if I am making no sense or just repeating myself lol, I will continue to study this
Matthew 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
OnOurWay2MO I had asked you earlier to explain about the above passage, but you weren't too interested, and I don't mean to go on about it and forgive me if I am out of bounds.
(I did answer you, I will see if I can find it, but I responded with asking which law he is talking about there. There are different laws, if he is referring to his moral law that he put into place through the 10 commandments, I believe those are still in place and we are to obey them. I think what was done away with was the daily sacrifices because He was now to become the sacrifice. I must not be understanding what you are getting at)
You said that Satans power was shattered at the resurrection, well it is only partly true, as it wasn't complete at this point. Satan still had power over His elect.
Notice the following:
Hebrews 8:13 In that He says, "A new [covenant,"] He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
The Jews that were in Christ were still part of the Old Covenant. It was "ready" to vanish. This was written 35 years after Christ's crucifixion. Although the new testament was in effect, the old had not fully vanished.
Mark 8:38 "For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels."
(I do not think that Mark 8:38 is referrring to His coming and resurrection, but to when He goes to the right hand of the Father. I looked up when "he cometh" and it means to go, to appear, etc. Could that not be a possibility?)
Mark 9:1 And He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power."
This Power did not come until after the resurrection.
There should not have been a chapter change here. It did not happen in the other two Gospels. Matthew 16:27-28
(Where do you see that the power did not come until after the resurrection? Could'nt it be referring to His transfiguration or the Holy Spirit coming at pentecost?)
Hebrews 9:8-11 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. It [was] symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience -- [concerned] only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation. But Christ came [as] High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
Here we see by the above that the way into the "Holiest of all" was not made manifest, while the temple still stood. It was already determined for destruction "in that Generation". This is when Christ had fulfilled all prophesy. This is when He came in power, with the glory of the father, and Angels. 70 AD. The destruction of the Temple and the Jews who would not accept Christ. This whole scheme of things was finished. We are now in that spiritual kingdom, where satan has no power. He has power over denominations today, because he is their king, and they do not understand spiritual things. When satan was cast out, He was cast out of the kingdom of God. Satan still resides on Earth with the people of the world. The flesh, or carnal. Death and Hades were also cast out... of the kingdom. Does death still reside here on the fleshly earth. Yes. The same with Hades, the grave.
(Was'nt it all fulfilled when He said "it is finished" on the cross? Maybe it is'nt referring to the actual temple destruction.
How can there still be death when in Revelation it says there is no death in the new heaven and earth? Rev 21:4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.)
Now please read the above verse in Matthew 5. Not a dot or a tittle will pass from the law till heaven and earth pass. All had to be fulfilled.
Daniel 12:7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who [was] above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that [it shall be] for a time, times, and half [a time;] and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these [things] shall be finished
(Possibly that prophecy was fulfilled then but maybe there is yet another to come for the future?)
Sorry if I am making no sense or just repeating myself lol, I will continue to study this
OnOurWay2MO: Mark 9 cannot logically be a reference to the transfiguration (6 days away) or Pentecost as neither of them allows enough time for the possibility of the deaths of MOST of those standing there. The Jewish Wars and A. D. 70, however, perfectly allow the right amount of time for most of them to die!
Mark 8:38 "For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels."
(I do not think that Mark 8:38 is referrring to His coming and resurrection, but to when He goes to the right hand of the Father. I looked up when "he cometh" and it means to go, to appear, etc. Could that not be a possibility?)
Mark 9:1 And He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power."
This Power did not come until after the resurrection.
There should not have been a chapter change here. It did not happen in the other two Gospels. Matthew 16:27-28
(Where do you see that the power did not come until after the resurrection? Could'nt it be referring to His transfiguration or the Holy Spirit coming at pentecost?)
Matthew 16:27-28, "For the Son of man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Christ stated in the above, that He would reward everyone according to their works. Revelation 22:12 states the same. In Matthew Christ is "about to come", and in Revelation, He is coming quickly and it is still the same event.
The rewarding of everyone according to their works.
Revelation 22:12 " And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward [is] with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
Mark 8:38-9:1, "Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power."
Luke 9:26-27, "For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God."
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(Where do you see that the power did not come until after the resurrection? Could'nt it be referring to His transfiguration or the Holy Spirit coming at pentecost?)
Jesus did not come with his angels, and every man was not judged and awarded according to his works, at pentecost. Notice that, in Matthew 16:27-28, the subject is the coming of the Lord. These verses speak of the coming of Jesus!
In John 16:7, Jesus said that he had to go away so that the Holy Spirit could come. In other words, the coming of the spirit signified the absence of Jesus.
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
The spirit was given in Acts 2. Verse 33 tells us that Christ was in heaven at the right hand of God when this took place. This is speaking about the coming of the holy spirit.
Acts 2:33 "Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
Acts 1:8 "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
Daniel 12:9 And he said, "Go [your way,] Daniel, for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
The time of the end. Or the end of time?
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All these things shall be finished
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