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It's really too bad that when someone on this forum strongly suggests to someone who is obviously hurting that they seek counsel - in real life - that they are made to feel bad about making this suggestion by other christians on this board.
Internet friends are great but for someone whose marriage and life is being torn apart - they need to find real people - a real support system that they can depend on...
Maybe I take this too seriously... but it's a serious issue for her and her husband.
I'm certainly not saying she shouldn't seek some sort of counseling. My personal feeling is that a group like Exodus isn't a good place to go, but that's just my opinion based on personal feelings and discussing the group with people who went through it.
Why would you expect there to be incest? I've never known anyone, straight or gay, who's experienced that as a child. I'm certainly not saying it never happens, but it's not like some common thing that "turns people gay". I also don't agree that bullying makes a boy "effeminate". I've known and currently know someone with a young boy who's obviously effeminate, and they have happy, healthy families. In both cases, the parents suspect their sons are gay, and are fine with that and consider it just how they are and nothing they did or something to try and change. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't.
Because Surfergirl said that her husband was molested by his brother. And, that he was teased by his classmates.
That's why.
You are defending that you were born that way. But, there are some things that can happen to people that can cause "sexual identity confusion"... and, incest is one of them.
Because Surfergirl said that her husband was molested by his brother. And, that he was teased by his classmates.
That's why.
You are defending that you were born that way. But, there are some things that can happen to people that can cause "sexual identity confusion"... and, incest is one of them.
I think I missed that in her posts. I can't really say what effect such trauma can cause since I didn't experience anything like that in my life.
I think I missed that in her posts. I can't really say what effect such trauma can cause since I didn't experience anything like that in my life.
Post #20, I believe.
I feel her pain. Being married to someone and not feeling secure that they love you is very painful. And, then when you add all of these other dynamics,... they're both hurting. I just want both of them to find the help they need.
Worst case senario, he will leave her but she will feel better about everything because they will both get all of these things out of the closet.. (sorry, it just seemed to fit the situation)
What I'm trying to say is that both of them are living with these secrets bottled up - and they need to get them in the light where they can be resolved!
God bless you!
Last edited by World Citizen; 06-05-2008 at 02:23 PM..
It is interesting that neither of you have incest in your past. From someone who does, and who's spent years studying and coming to grips with the "cause and effect" after effects -- I can say with assurance that it can cause someone to have all different kinds of sexual identity and other sexual issues. It is a fact that if a man is raped - and has a sexual response - then that triggers confusion. It is also a fact that abusers tell their victims that they deserve it, and they like it and they asked for it -- and that can seriously mess you up.
Further, I guess I just have to wonder if he's really effeminate or if the name calling and teasing originated from the older brother - who was obviously a bully... It is obvious that these things would have a devastating effect on a child's identity.
The one thing I know for certain is that this is not a good place to seek information or make decisions about something that is effecting someone's life so seriously. I hope you seek the right kind of counsel - from people that understand both sides of the issue - and are not just defending their own belief / choices... lifestyle... (whatever word you prefer that is not in any way offensive... and not meant to be!)
Surfergirl... you need to find someone in real life that you can talk to. And, you may have to shop around until you find the right person that you can work with to help you find peace - and possibly find the peace that your husband is also seeking in his life.
May God bless you and guide you on your journey,
WC
I really appreciate your concern, but this is really the only place I feel that I can come to to discuss it. I really need to talk to real life gay men who have lived similar experiences to my husband. I have problems making friends and feeling close to people. We moved to this city that we currently live in about 2 years ago. My brother and his wife live here so that was why we moved here. I HATE IT HERE and, no, I can't confide in my brother because it is pretty obvious that he feels our marriage will fail. For example, he gives my husband very expensive gifts for birthdays and holidays and I think that is just to keep him around for me. I really do. And I make a lot more money than my husband--I just wonder how long he would have stayed if I hadn't gotten him out of poverty and if he didn't know he would be right back in poverty if we ever broke up. My husband SWEARS he loves me even though he still struggles with SSA's, but I feel our sex life suffers and I can't help but feel he really wants to be with a man. I though I would feel so much better once he got rid of the female friend who was encouraging him to go back to his past, but nothing has really changed about the way I feel. Oh, and yes, he is really effeminate--he fits the perfect gay stereotype. I've helped him to tone done his gestures a lot though. I don't believe his experience with his brother caused this. Thanks for letting me vent. I hope I'm not getting annoying by coming here so much, but we can't really afford counseling.
I can't help but feel he really wants to be with a man.
This is truly a very difficult situation. I sincerely understand that.
I was going to post my thoughts, however, I'm not exactly certain in what context you are looking for support, surfergirl, so out of respect to you and your situation, I thought I would refrain for the time being...
Do you want greater insight, understanding, and guidance in terms of what you are struggling with, spoken with empathy, honesty, and compassion, or just support for where you are now in your marriage?
This is truly a very difficult situation. I sincerely understand that.
I was going to post my thoughts, however, I'm not exactly certain in what context you are looking for support, surfergirl, so out of respect to you and your situation, I thought I would refrain for the time being...
Do you want greater insight, understanding, and guidance in terms of what you are struggling with, spoken with empathy, honesty, and compassion, or just support for where you are now in your marriage?
I guess I want all the above, June 7th. I absolutely DO need support and understanding for my situation. But I also want honesty--that is of extreme importance. I'm somebody who'd rather know the truth now, even if it's not encouraging, than to find out many years in the future when I've really let a lot of time slip by.
The real issue of concern hardly seems to be noticed in these posts. Personal comfort has never been a deciding factor in serving God. Regardless of the lusts that rage in one's heart, Jesus says, "If you would be coming under My discipline to experience what learning of Me produces you must every day take up your cross, DENY YOURSELF, and follow me." Denying yourself is not compatible with self realization and self fulfillment. God realization, to fulfill His desire is another path. Any "carnal" identity if walked after produces death. Whether or not people find some higher pleasure in their bodies or go AWOL from some inner war are not criteria for Divine approval or spiritual development; but, rather quite the opposite. It's not how well I function, certainly not how well my sex works that's the question. It's how well does the Holy Spirit function in my life. Of course, these are matters for those who would be members of Christ, His flesh and bone in the earth. Those only concerned for the utmost of human fufillment have no interst in the kingdom of God.
Somebody who says they must be true to themselves rather than God lives in a self made realm, not in the Holy Spirit. How about a man who keeps fornicating with women who says he just can't help himself, he was born that way and must be true to himself? Is there supposed to be some new revelation, a new way to read the Bible and make it all OK? I was born dirtying my diapers but I didn't stay that way. I didn't make a new religion so I can walk around approved for wearing dirty diapers as an adult. Attempts to re-invent Christian truth will not succeed but only decieve yourself. God will have a Royal Priesthood who will reign with Him.
There are many things that make people have sexual difficulties. These problems are part of marriage. No marriage has an assurance of tomorrow. As long as both give themselves to each other as completely as possible, respecting each other's personal pursuits while they whole heartedly follow Jesus they can expect success, even if it's with a limp. How many perfect tens are out there? The simple solution to marriage problems is DENY YOURSELF. Sounds like Jesus' qualification for following Him.
A lot of people enjoy their life: religion, sex, careers and such. They seem relatively unaware they're dead-heads, neither fulfilling the physical human role they were born to play nor realizing their greater gifts given to those pleasing God. If you want God and His truth, stay away from pseudo-christian pro-gay nonsense. They want to defend arguments made by any self respecting alcoholic.
Two really horrible lies seem to have taken over much of the modern media. One is that to not approve of the gay lifestyle means you're bigotted with a mental illness called homophobia. What child has not tried this argument with it's parents? "If you don't give me what I want, you don't love me!" Myself, along with very many others know we love people who do not walk according to Godliness. It's alway been denied we loved those who approve of sin. The other lie is that people can't change (which includes God can't change people.) Once gay, always gay. Many people happily testify to the contrary. Who should be believed? Both lies are absolutely not the human experience.
Exodus doesn't charge money and may be able to refer to other helps that are not for profit. "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful." (Psalm 1:1)
Last edited by JamesMRohde; 06-07-2008 at 11:33 PM..
I really have to add a couple things. One is that if you have even the slightest inkling your husband is being intimate with other men you need to quit having sex with him immediately. It's not worth your life to pamper each other's feelings. You imply you don't have enough financial resourses for counseling, though that seems you think commercial psychology has answers: only if you care nothing about being a follower of Jesus. But my proposal to hire a private investigator to find out if he is foolin' 'round seems might not look affordable to you either. You better find a way to make him talk. You wouldn't be the first to not only find out your husband had a whole other life on the down low and that you have aids at the same time.
Another point is for these people that think being practicing homosexuals is compatible with being a follower of Jesus. North Korea needs you! There are over 105,000 Christians in jail there for their faith in Jesus. They need you to tell them it is completely unecessary and based on a misunderstanding. God wants them to take pleasure in their Korean identity. They were born North Koreans. So, since North Korea doesn't feel like accepting The Bible or Christians neither should they. In fact, along with their North Korean brothers, they should persecute Christians as Korea-phobic.
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