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Actually what Paul is telling them is to give up self. That’s what Christianity is all about. Put God first in your life. Put others ahead of yourself.
The only priesthood spoken of in the New Testament church is the priesthood of believers.
You're looking at this whole thing backwards.
You're reading the New Testament in isolation and trying to build a church based on what you have read. This is never how Christianity worked.
What you must understand is that the Apostles founded churches which were already functioning for decades before the books and letters of the New Testament were even written. Many of these churches founded by Apostles are still in existence today, believing and worshipping in largely the same way -- specifically, with an ordained priesthood.
The New Testament must be read in this context, realizing that many things are assumed or unwritten because they simply weren't topics of contention or did not pertain to the purpose of the letter.
We know how the early Church believed and functioned because we have letters and sermons from early Church Fathers and documents from early councils. What is clear is that the early Church had bishops and other ministers presiding over local liturgies, which were clearly sacerdotal/sacrificial in nature.
It appears that use of the word "priest/sacerdos" to refer to the clergyman presiding over the liturgy may have been a gradual development. It's entirely possible that early Christians wanted to distinguish Christian worship from that of the pagans, and the use of the word "priest/sacerdos" may have been scandalous to some in such a pagan-dominated time and place. It's also possible that only bishops were performing the sacerdotal service at first, until the Church started to grow and that became logistically impossible. At some point, bishops needed to appoint priests to act in their name.
The earliest use of the word "priest/sacerdos" in a Christian context that we know of is from the early part of the 3rd century.
I understand why you ask, “What are you giving up?”
When we think about Jesus dying on the cross, we think of Him sacrificing, offering or giving up His life for us.
So what do we give up? What sacrifice do we offer up to God? SELF! Everything we are. Everything we have. Our hopes and dreams. Our time. Our money. And even our lives. The giving of self is the greatest sacrifice we can make.
God wants our praise, our thanks, our prayers, our love. He wants us to give up self. He wants our all! And when we give these things to God, He is pleased. We are letting Him know that He is first in our lives, and that we trust Him completely. We are glorifying Him when we do these things.
I hope Romans 12:1 will help you to understand how our bodies can be a living sacrifice.
“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.” (Romans 12:1)
Have a blessed day, Sparrow!
Kate
Ok, we just disagree on the usage of the term "sacrifice". I don't see these things as sacrifices.
That's all.
That's what I'm saying.... "sacrifice" does not make sense in this context.
However, the quote below does shed more light on it, for me, anyway:
Why would people today proclaim these things as "sacrifices"? They shouldn't. It makes no sense.
The acts of praying, singing songs, walking in love, are not sacrifices. If they were, we would be giving up something. What are we giving up? Still looking for an answer. I just think that term shouldn't be used. It is nonsensical, in my opinion and just adds a layer of unnecessary confusion. That's all. Again, just my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired
No they wouldn't. I see it as Paul telling them to give up their sacrifices of animals ...which is what happened with Christianity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
Actually what Paul is telling them is to give up self. That’s what Christianity is all about. Put God first in your life. Put others ahead of yourself.
The original confusion was in the creation of the sacrifice of animals as if that is the "sacrifice" God wanted from us. The sacrifice was not to "sacrifice" animals to appease God for our sins, but to give up our unbridled "Selfishness"! The meaning was NOT to give up concern for Self, per se, because concern for Self is a necessary condition for this life. Our concern for Self needs to be tempered with concern for our impact on others.
That concern is what agape love is all about. Agape love automatically is the love of God (who IS agape love) so our human concerns over worship, praise, pleasing, and glorifying God are automatic when we act out of agape love. Prayers should be "Thanks" (NOT requests for favors) because we "Trust" in God's love for us. The confusion about all this is largely the result of our ancestors' barbaric "wrathful God Dogma" and its focus on sin, appeasement, and "punishment" in Hell, IMO.
The original confusion was in the creation of the sacrifice of animals as if that is the "sacrifice" God wanted from us. The sacrifice was not to "sacrifice" animals to appease God for our sins, but to give up our unbridled "Selfishness"! The meaning was NOT to give up concern for Self, per se, because concern for Self is a necessary condition for this life. Our concern for Self needs to be tempered with concern for our impact on others.
That concern is what agape love is all about. Agape love automatically is the love of God (who IS agape love) so our human concerns over worship, praise, pleasing, and glorifying God are automatic when we act out of agape love. Prayers should be "Thanks" (NOT requests for favors) because we "Trust" in God's love for us. The confusion about all this is largely the result of our ancestors' barbaric "wrathful God Dogma" and its focus on sin, appeasement, and "punishment" in Hell, IMO.
And to add on to that, I think the idea of these things being "sacrifice" paints a distorted picture. That there is some sort of "loss", or that you are giving up something that is beneficial to you. Instead, the TRUE picture that should be painted is not one of loss or sacrifice, but one of GAIN! Joy. Well-being.
The "sacrifice" mindset is a religious mindset. It is the very thing that promotes self-righteousness, and a CONTINUAL judgement of others (and judgement of one's own self.) Love your neighbor as yourself, if you are continually judging yourself, you are going to continually judge others.
A religious mindset like this is chains and shackles on your spirit.
You're reading the New Testament in isolation and trying to build a church based on what you have read. This is never how Christianity worked.
What you must understand is that the Apostles founded churches which were already functioning for decades before the books and letters of the New Testament were even written. Many of these churches founded by Apostles are still in existence today, believing and worshipping in largely the same way -- specifically, with an ordained priesthood.
The New Testament must be read in this context, realizing that many things are assumed or unwritten because they simply weren't topics of contention or did not pertain to the purpose of the letter.
We know how the early Church believed and functioned because we have letters and sermons from early Church Fathers and documents from early councils. What is clear is that the early Church had bishops and other ministers presiding over local liturgies, which were clearly sacerdotal/sacrificial in nature.
It appears that use of the word "priest/sacerdos" to refer to the clergyman presiding over the liturgy may have been a gradual development. It's entirely possible that early Christians wanted to distinguish Christian worship from that of the pagans, and the use of the word "priest/sacerdos" may have been scandalous to some in such a pagan-dominated time and place. It's also possible that only bishops were performing the sacerdotal service at first, until the Church started to grow and that became logistically impossible. At some point, bishops needed to appoint priests to act in their name.
The earliest use of the word "priest/sacerdos" in a Christian context that we know of is from the early part of the 3rd century.
No Mike. I’m looking at the priesthood from the God-breathed Old & New Testament, not third century uninspired men.
The Greek Hiereus is translated priest. It is used numerous times throughout the NT.
Jesus’ priesthood was in the order of Melchizedek. The Levitical priesthood was not.
Jesus was the perfect and final sacrifice, and as a result, we have no need of animal sacrifices or the Levitical priesthood. The Levitical priesthood ended at the cross.
Jesus is our ONE and only mediator now. We have direct access to God through Jesus, our ONE and only high priest.
All Christians are priests. Each has a role within the body of Christ. All offer spiritual sacrifices to God.
Jesus founded His church. Under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the apostles established the congregations we read about in the NT. They appointed pluralities of elders/overseers/shepherds/bishops to lead those congregations.
Have a blessed evening!
Kate
Last edited by MissKate12; 03-11-2024 at 03:57 PM..
No Mike. I’m looking at the priesthood from the God-breathed Old & New Testament, not third century uninspired men.
The Greek Hiereus is translated priest. It is used numerous times throughout the NT.
Jesus’ priesthood was in the order of Melchizedek. The Levitical priesthood was not.
Jesus was the perfect and final sacrifice, and as a result, we have no need of animal sacrifices or the Levitical priesthood. The Levitical priesthood ended at the cross.
Jesus is our ONE and only mediator now. We have direct access to God through Jesus, our ONE and only high priest.
All Christians are priests. Each has a role within the body of Christ. All offer spiritual sacrifices to God.
Jesus founded His church. Under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the apostles established the congregations we read about in the NT. They appointed pluralities of elders/overseers/shepherds/bishops to lead those congregations.
Have a blessed evening!
Kate
Miss Kate, this may come as a complete and utter shock to you, but Catholic priests are NOT ordained as Levitical priests!
Miss Kate, this may come as a complete and utter shock to you, but Catholic priests are NOT ordained as Levitical priests!
Jesus Christ is the head of His church. He has chosen to have elders (presbuteros) to watch over each congregation. Both Peter and Paul tell us that these elders would be the ones to shepherd the church of God.
Scripture is clear that all Christians are "a holy priesthood," and it is they who offer up spiritual sacrifices to God. (1 Pet. 2:5).
Elders were not called priests in Scripture. That tradition started in the 3rd century as the western churches began to use Latin in their writings. Though elders are priests.
You will not find in Scripture a lone priest leading a congregation.
Our differences are irreconcilable. Here’s why. The Scriptures alone dominate my thinking and beliefs. You, on the other hand, are ruled by uninspired Christian history.
Christian history is valuable in that it gives us a picture of what the early church looked like, but at the same time, it is not God-breathed.
We will have to agree to disagree.
Have a blessed day!
Kate
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