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beeveenh, please pay very close attention to what you are about to read because it's time I finally said this:
I absolutely agree with you that 90% of JWs are producing good fruit, live moral and clean lives, show great love to their fellow brethren, and are very kind and generous people. A kinder, milder group of people would be hard to find. I had great respect for hundreds of them when I was a JW for 15 years. My father, a JW for 25 years, also held the same utmost respect for them. And we were as they were. We made the same exact life that they did, but that did not prepare us for what happened when we left....
When my father uncovered the errors with the JWs and brought 9 brothers into the house, showing every one of them all of the errors, and that there is absolutely no proof whatsoever, (nor is there even a possibility of proof), that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BC, they looked at him, denounced everything he was saying, and told him he was showing great signs of apostasy. Just because he pointed out that Armageddon was prophesied in 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925 and 1975, they told him he was following in satan's footsteps. Because he used the words "false prophecy", they told him he was showing signs of serious apostacy. Never once did they offer him acknowledgement that all of those things actually happened. When their backs were against the wall, they turned on a man they had known and loved for 25 years. They did not use a spirit of love or understanding. They did not acknowledge the truth. They walked out of the house, in succession, all 9 of them, and there my father stood, watching them leave. After that, he said to my mother, "What are we going to do now?" Incidentally, my father was not allowed to talk to his own mother for the 25 years that preceeded that cold meeting. She, my grandmother, had been disfellowshipped in 1975 for smoking. The Watchtower Society decided back in 75 that from that point on, you could no longer smoke. You had 6 months to quit. On the date they specified that you had to quit by, my grandmother meekly went to them and said "Brothers, I need more time. Just a few weeks, Please grant me more time. I am trying so hard to quit. I know I can do it." The disfellowshipped her right then and there, turned their back on her, and she was left to lose her grandchildren and son for the next 15 years. All because she just needed a "few more weeks". Is that love? It destroyed the unity of my fathers family. I was not allowed to know my grandmother until 1989 when my family got out of the JWs, and just then, my grandmother died. I wished I was allowed to get to know her.... but I only had "a few weeks" to. I watched her die in that bed and all along hated the Watchtower Society for wastng my life with a bunch of lies and false prophesies that they were hiding in the closet. Once one exposed the lies, they were denounced and immediately cut off for not being "submissive". It's SICK.
Add to that, when my family got out of the JW's, a brother would see me at school every day because he worked as a custodian there. He would stop me in the hallway and ask me why I was doing what I was doing, or if I'd had enough time to think about what I've done that was so displeasing to the Lord (by leaving with my family), and he'd preach to me that Jehovah would severely punish me. The day he stopped me for the last time and told me I was following in the "footsteps of the Devil" was the last straw. I went home shaking and in tears because of what he had said to me. I told my parents and they marched right in to school, called in the guys boss, and ripped up one side of that man and down the other, and he deserved it. he had been close friends with my family for years, and he didn't even look my father in the eye in that office that day. He never spoke to me, or any of us again.
1 family member of mine cannot even speak about God since leaving the JW's. Another family member of mine gets very cold and callosed when the subject comes up. A young woman that I just spoke to a few nights ago, a disassociated JW has severe anxiety and fear problems from being raised in that "fear inspired religion" and she can barely pray because she isn't even sure who she should be speaking to, and she fears God has rejected her. I too, have suffered from anxiety and fear problems for years. Imagine walking through life always looking around the corner when you enter into a dark room, because you're afraid there are demons in the room. Now imagine that as a child, because that's how children in the JWs are trained to think. If there's even so much as a tv show in tv that you shouldn't be watching, demons could come in to your house. And don't tell me that's not what they teach, because too many people I know that were borm and raised JWs have the same rediculous fear as adults. Imagine a full grown adult still being afraid that demons are all over the place. Because that's what they grew up believing. Again, SICK.
My cousin, another ex-JW has also suffered from bad anxiety problems and has basically turned his back on God all together after getting out of the JW's. 2 other cousins of mine got out and turned gay. 2 other cousins by marriage had a daughter who got out and turned to drugs and deep depression after losing all of her close friends because of her decision to leave based on errors in the Watchtower Society. Another girl I know who was close friends with my family, is just now, after years of being out, just starting to talk about God again without getting angry. Another one, who was my best friend as a child, cannot even speak about the JW's because her entire family was torn apart by the JWs as well.
It's obvious as to why I want t see the Watchtower Society exposed. The JWs THEMSELVES, I have no problem with, and as a matter of fact, I pray for them. And I pray for you, who has ties to them. Try to bring your Bible to one of their meetings and see what happens. Ask them why the scriptures in their bible have been changed from the original versions of the Bible? Ask them what their response is to the fact that they have torn apart so many lives of people, and even pushed people away from the topic of God all together. They will most likely tell you that the reason we "EX" JWs have so many problems is because we left the JW's. The ones you would talk to in your meetings have never really searched that deeply into the past, because if they had, and if YOU had, I guarantee you, you would not for one more minute have another study with that organization.
I do not say anything ill of you personally. But the religion you are involved in has destroyed lives, and yes, even taken lives. The suicide counts of those who left the JWs is staggering. People's families have turned their backs on them. Mothers would not see their daughters be married. My own mother could not step foot into the church that was holding the service of her close cousin's death. She was forced to stand outside alone while the service was going on, and she would be permitted to say hello to the family once it was over. Raise a child in the JWs and then pull them out a good 20 years later because you finally realize you are living a lie. Then see what kind of problems your child now suffers because of the fact that you raised them in an organization so full of fear that he/she cannot even pray without some fear that God has denounced them for leaving the Watchtower, Bible and Tract Society.
Enough said. So please leave me to my thing unless you want to hear some more dreadful stories.
Here's a good link for your favorites, if you really want to make an educated choice as to your future, and the future of your family: Ex-Jehovah's Witness Testimonies
You know you are right Beeveenh! when the end comes People wont be spending the time bashing Jehovah witnesses instead it will turn into the time in Noah's day when every one Laughed at him when Jehovah told him to build the Ark! But when that day of the flood came no one was laughing any more. So I guess every one will find out when that time comes! But like every one else Im not hear to argue my religion because its foolish to when thats all the people who bash Jehovah witnesses want to do. It is them who will have to answer to Jehovah when his day comes. And the reason I feel like your attacking God when You say things about Jehovah witnesses is because Jehovah is his name AS Psalms 83:18 says and to attack Jehovah's people well your attacking him! Like I said Im not going to argue because that is not how Jehovah would want me to be. WE are hear to Preach the Good News of the kingdom like Matt 24:14 says. It dont say to argue. But thanks for your Opion I will stick with Jehovah's since he creadted me. again thanks but no thanks
I absolutely agree with you that 90% of JWs are producing good fruit, live moral and clean lives, show great love to their fellow brethren, and are very kind and generous people. A kinder, milder group of people would be hard to find. I had great respect for hundreds of them when I was a JW for 15 years. My father, a JW for 25 years, also held the same utmost respect for them. And we were as they were. We made the same exact life that they did, but that did not prepare us for what happened when we left....
When my father uncovered the errors with the JWs and brought 9 brothers into the house, showing every one of them all of the errors, and that there is absolutely no proof whatsoever, (nor is there even a possibility of proof), that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BC, they looked at him, denounced everything he was saying, and told him he was showing great signs of apostasy. Just because he pointed out that Armageddon was prophesied in 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925 and 1975, they told him he was following in satan's footsteps. Because he used the words "false prophecy", they told him he was showing signs of serious apostacy. Never once did they offer him acknowledgement that all of those things actually happened. When their backs were against the wall, they turned on a man they had known and loved for 25 years. They did not use a spirit of love or understanding. They did not acknowledge the truth. They walked out of the house, in succession, all 9 of them, and there my father stood, watching them leave. After that, he said to my mother, "What are we going to do now?" Incidentally, my father was not allowed to talk to his own mother for the 25 years that preceeded that cold meeting. She, my grandmother, had been disfellowshipped in 1975 for smoking. The Watchtower Society decided back in 75 that from that point on, you could no longer smoke. You had 6 months to quit. On the date they specified that you had to quit by, my grandmother meekly went to them and said "Brothers, I need more time. Just a few weeks, Please grant me more time. I am trying so hard to quit. I know I can do it." The disfellowshipped her right then and there, turned their back on her, and she was left to lose her grandchildren and son for the next 15 years. All because she just needed a "few more weeks". Is that love? It destroyed the unity of my fathers family. I was not allowed to know my grandmother until 1989 when my family got out of the JWs, and just then, my grandmother died. I wished I was allowed to get to know her.... but I only had "a few weeks" to. I watched her die in that bed and all along hated the Watchtower Society for wastng my life with a bunch of lies and false prophesies that they were hiding in the closet. Once one exposed the lies, they were denounced and immediately cut off for not being "submissive". It's SICK.
Add to that, when my family got out of the JW's, a brother would see me at school every day because he worked as a custodian there. He would stop me in the hallway and ask me why I was doing what I was doing, or if I'd had enough time to think about what I've done that was so displeasing to the Lord (by leaving with my family), and he'd preach to me that Jehovah would severely punish me. The day he stopped me for the last time and told me I was following in the "footsteps of the Devil" was the last straw. I went home shaking and in tears because of what he had said to me. I told my parents and they marched right in to school, called in the guys boss, and ripped up one side of that man and down the other, and he deserved it. he had been close friends with my family for years, and he didn't even look my father in the eye in that office that day. He never spoke to me, or any of us again.
1 family member of mine cannot even speak about God since leaving the JW's. Another family member of mine gets very cold and callosed when the subject comes up. A young woman that I just spoke to a few nights ago, a disassociated JW has severe anxiety and fear problems from being raised in that "fear inspired religion" and she can barely pray because she isn't even sure who she should be speaking to, and she fears God has rejected her. I too, have suffered from anxiety and fear problems for years. Imagine walking through life always looking around the corner when you enter into a dark room, because you're afraid there are demons in the room. Now imagine that as a child, because that's how children in the JWs are trained to think. If there's even so much as a tv show in tv that you shouldn't be watching, demons could come in to your house. And don't tell me that's not what they teach, because too many people I know that were borm and raised JWs have the same rediculous fear as adults. Imagine a full grown adult still being afraid that demons are all over the place. Because that's what they grew up believing. Again, SICK.
My cousin, another ex-JW has also suffered from bad anxiety problems and has basically turned his back on God all together after getting out of the JW's. 2 other cousins of mine got out and turned gay. 2 other cousins by marriage had a daughter who got out and turned to drugs and deep depression after losing all of her close friends because of her decision to leave based on errors in the Watchtower Society. Another girl I know who was close friends with my family, is just now, after years of being out, just starting to talk about God again without getting angry. Another one, who was my best friend as a child, cannot even speak about the JW's because her entire family was torn apart by the JWs as well.
It's obvious as to why I want t see the Watchtower Society exposed. The JWs THEMSELVES, I have no problem with, and as a matter of fact, I pray for them. And I pray for you, who has ties to them. Try to bring your Bible to one of their meetings and see what happens. Ask them why the scriptures in their bible have been changed from the original versions of the Bible? Ask them what their response is to the fact that they have torn apart so many lives of people, and even pushed people away from the topic of God all together. They will most likely tell you that the reason we "EX" JWs have so many problems is because we left the JW's. The ones you would talk to in your meetings have never really searched that deeply into the past, because if they had, and if YOU had, I guarantee you, you would not for one more minute have another study with that organization.
I do not say anything ill of you personally. But the religion you are involved in has destroyed lives, and yes, even taken lives. The suicide counts of those who left the JWs is staggering. People's families have turned their backs on them. Mothers would not see their daughters be married. My own mother could not step foot into the church that was holding the service of her close cousin's death. She was forced to stand outside alone while the service was going on, and she would be permitted to say hello to the family once it was over. Raise a child in the JWs and then pull them out a good 20 years later because you finally realize you are living a lie. Then see what kind of problems your child now suffers because of the fact that you raised them in an organization so full of fear that he/she cannot even pray without some fear that God has denounced them for leaving the Watchtower, Bible and Tract Society.
Enough said. So please leave me to my thing unless you want to hear some more dreadful stories.
Here's a good link for your favorites, if you really want to make an educated choice as to your future, and the future of your family: Ex-Jehovah's Witness Testimonies[/quote]
lol thats funny! Im sure your not telling the whole story because thats not how it works or how problems are handled.
*sigh* my first response is lost in cyber space now. Stupid Wifi
So i'll recap what i had to say:
It's not only very offensive, but also very stupid and naive of you to believe that the society is anywhere near clean, and innocent, and blameless.
My families Story isn't like the other super nice lady's (sorry forgot your name ) story.
My mother was molested daily by her JW step dad for i dont even want to know how long. Grandma would go off to work and my mom would have to hide from this creep under the bed and pray to Jehovah that he wouldn't get her. There another side of that story.
My brother and i who were both molested, though not by a witness would suffer night terrors every day because either we relived what had happened to us and believed we were "wrong and dirty" or whole heartedly believe the demons were coming to get us.
I remember i went to a friends house and she was watching Queen of the damned and when i came home i had to pray for forgiveness and that the demons wouldn't come after me. My lovely JW mom ( still love the woman) would tell us about how the demons could rape us and throw us about and how that was the cause of our older siblings' deaths.
But after all the bad experiences i still have to say that I love many people in the org. and that they are some of the sweetest and most devout christians i know.
I guess the point of my rambling was to say that there is no way that they are perfectly devoid of blame in any way. But they also aren't the worst thing here. And for you to say that that couldn't be the whole story, offends me to no end. Crap like this happens all the time. I am not lying, the other people aren't lying, we arent damn apostates working for the devil and trying to mislead people.
I've put off responding for a few weeks...not sure at all I would respond or just let it rest. But I have been thinking a lot about all of the posts and since it's back up near the top of the threads I thought I'd go ahead and respond.
Reformed: thank you for taking the time to type out your experience...it was a long one. I did not observe first hand the things you say happened, nor do I know your family. I'm sure "Kisses" didn't intend to be offensive, but instead was just trying to say that there may be other factors or circumstances that weren't mentioned...there is ALWAYS another side to the story.
If your father found serious error with the JW's and presented to other members who disagreed...then it sounds like he was on his way to leaving the religion on his own accord. They were probably just as stunned and hurt as your father was. I'm sure they discussed this situation with love and understanding prior to leaving in succession. Perhaps your father was just as unwilling to listen as you say they were unwilling listen to your father. JW's take their faith seriously, and the members do more research than any other religious organization that I have ever encountered. It's all a he said/she said and I wasn't there so I don't know.
As far as the smoking issue...I give the JW's credit for taking a stand on an issue like smoking and requiring members to be free from the habit. SMOKNG KILLS PEOPLE...life is sacred and should be treated respectfully (2 Cor 7:1). 6 months is a generous amount of time, sorry your grandmother couldn't kick the habit. How many other people asked for extensions on the 6 months? How do you draw a line and then make exceptions? By age? By level of apparent dependency? If they made exceptions, there'd probably STILL be smokers trying to quit.
There is no law that says you cannot talk to a disfellowshipped member. It is a personal choice. Are you discouraged from doing so, sure...for your own spiritual health. Why associate with someone who opposes what you believe? It could be damaging to your spiritual health. HOWEVER, as I said it is a personal choice. I have a sister who some would consider an apostate...I still talk to her and so do my other JW family members. What people don't understand is that JW's don't like to see their friends and family leave the faith. They actually mourn, are heartsick, and pray for that individual. Some do choose to keep in contact encouraging them to repent. Some do choose to cut off communication.
Quote:
Try to bring your Bible to one of their meetings and see what happens.
I imagine being escorted out by armed guards, lol. It doesn't matter what bible translation you use. That is just laughable! How have so many other people come to the same conclusions (nonJW's included) using different translations? The doctrines of hell or the trinity (just to name two) are not disputed by JW's alone.
Quote:
Now imagine that as a child, because that's how children in the JWs are trained to think. If there's even so much as a tv show in tv that you shouldn't be watching, demons could come in to your house. And don't tell me that's not what they teach, because too many people I know that were borm and raised JWs have the same rediculous fear as adults.
I was raised a JW and not taught this extreme fear. Perhaps it's the parenting?? Was I taught to have a fear of demonistic and spiritually unhealthy things, yes. We couldn't listen to songs that had sexually explicit or violent language either. We didn't watch programs with that content...or programs that contained things that dealt with "spirits". I am not traumatized, nor are my sisters, nor are my cousins (all 10 of them).
You describe peoples' lives who left the religion and who's lives took a turn for the worst. How can that be blamed on the religion??? They "TURNED" gay because of the JW's...after they left the JW's?? Another turned to drugs and suffered from depression?? There are millions of others who turn away from these things when they BECOME a JW. If you and your family members want to blame the religion as a scapegoat, please don't leave out the other side of the stories. I honestly mean no disrespect, but it sounds like your family has some serious issues outside of the religion. That may sound blunt and harsh, but there is no other way to say it.
Dahlila, I'm sorry to hear the experiences you had as well. As a mother, my heart aches to hear of such things. But again, my mother never said such things to us. We were warned that the supernatural was something not to be toyed with. Perhaps it is a parenting thing? As for the child molestation that occured in your family. Are you saying that it happened because you were JW's? Unfortunately, people of all kinds can creep in to any organization and "hide" or blend in. The JW religion does not PRODUCE fruit that are molestors or abusers or tormentors.
They do not destroy families either. In my situation, it has done the exact opposite of what you (reformed) claim and brought my family closer together. The counsel for husbands, wives, parents, and children is clear. Parents don't disown children (or vice versa) for choosing to leave the religion. Many times it is the nonJW who shuns the JW for not participating in holidays, or acting too "goody goody". How many nonJW people disown you when you become a JW?! I'll tell you from experience nonJW people judge you just as much as JW's are accused of judging.
Instead of being stumbled by the imperfections of the members of any religion, look at the doctrines the religion teaches. Are they scripturally sound? Look at the practices (holidays, worship, etc). Are they scripturally sound?
My own experience is long as well. My mother became a JW when I was in 4th grade, so that is when my experience began. I've studied off and on for 30 years. I have encountered all kinds of religions and philosophies, all kinds of people, and had many different experiences. So my vision is broad and without blinders. I have done the research and believe that what I have learned while studying with JW's is scripturally sound.
Dear Reformed, How refreshing it is to read your story...It gives hope...you were raised the way you were raised, and saved the way you were saved, for one purpose and one purpose only...to bring God glory!!! So go on child of God, write your book...do all you can to help those who are now where you once were...that's what it's all about. Freely you were given...so freely shall you give! Love from me. Can I ask someone out there how I get the little "faces" that show expression on my threads, or replys? Thnks!
I've put off responding for a few weeks...not sure at all I would respond or just let it rest. But I have been thinking a lot about all of the posts and since it's back up near the top of the threads I thought I'd go ahead and respond.
Reformed: thank you for taking the time to type out your experience...it was a long one. I did not observe first hand the things you say happened, nor do I know your family. I'm sure "Kisses" didn't intend to be offensive, but instead was just trying to say that there may be other factors or circumstances that weren't mentioned...there is ALWAYS another side to the story.
If your father found serious error with the JW's and presented to other members who disagreed...then it sounds like he was on his way to leaving the religion on his own accord. They were probably just as stunned and hurt as your father was. I'm sure they discussed this situation with love and understanding prior to leaving in succession. Perhaps your father was just as unwilling to listen as you say they were unwilling listen to your father. JW's take their faith seriously, and the members do more research than any other religious organization that I have ever encountered. It's all a he said/she said and I wasn't there so I don't know.
As far as the smoking issue...I give the JW's credit for taking a stand on an issue like smoking and requiring members to be free from the habit. SMOKNG KILLS PEOPLE...life is sacred and should be treated respectfully (2 Cor 7:1). 6 months is a generous amount of time, sorry your grandmother couldn't kick the habit. How many other people asked for extensions on the 6 months? How do you draw a line and then make exceptions? By age? By level of apparent dependency? If they made exceptions, there'd probably STILL be smokers trying to quit.
There is no law that says you cannot talk to a disfellowshipped member. It is a personal choice. Are you discouraged from doing so, sure...for your own spiritual health. Why associate with someone who opposes what you believe? It could be damaging to your spiritual health. HOWEVER, as I said it is a personal choice. I have a sister who some would consider an apostate...I still talk to her and so do my other JW family members. What people don't understand is that JW's don't like to see their friends and family leave the faith. They actually mourn, are heartsick, and pray for that individual. Some do choose to keep in contact encouraging them to repent. Some do choose to cut off communication.
I imagine being escorted out by armed guards, lol. It doesn't matter what bible translation you use. That is just laughable! How have so many other people come to the same conclusions (nonJW's included) using different translations? The doctrines of hell or the trinity (just to name two) are not disputed by JW's alone.
I was raised a JW and not taught this extreme fear. Perhaps it's the parenting?? Was I taught to have a fear of demonistic and spiritually unhealthy things, yes. We couldn't listen to songs that had sexually explicit or violent language either. We didn't watch programs with that content...or programs that contained things that dealt with "spirits". I am not traumatized, nor are my sisters, nor are my cousins (all 10 of them).
You describe peoples' lives who left the religion and who's lives took a turn for the worst. How can that be blamed on the religion??? They "TURNED" gay because of the JW's...after they left the JW's?? Another turned to drugs and suffered from depression?? There are millions of others who turn away from these things when they BECOME a JW. If you and your family members want to blame the religion as a scapegoat, please don't leave out the other side of the stories. I honestly mean no disrespect, but it sounds like your family has some serious issues outside of the religion. That may sound blunt and harsh, but there is no other way to say it.
Dahlila, I'm sorry to hear the experiences you had as well. As a mother, my heart aches to hear of such things. But again, my mother never said such things to us. We were warned that the supernatural was something not to be toyed with. Perhaps it is a parenting thing? As for the child molestation that occured in your family. Are you saying that it happened because you were JW's? Unfortunately, people of all kinds can creep in to any organization and "hide" or blend in. The JW religion does not PRODUCE fruit that are molestors or abusers or tormentors.
They do not destroy families either. In my situation, it has done the exact opposite of what you (reformed) claim and brought my family closer together. The counsel for husbands, wives, parents, and children is clear. Parents don't disown children (or vice versa) for choosing to leave the religion. Many times it is the nonJW who shuns the JW for not participating in holidays, or acting too "goody goody". How many nonJW people disown you when you become a JW?! I'll tell you from experience nonJW people judge you just as much as JW's are accused of judging.
Instead of being stumbled by the imperfections of the members of any religion, look at the doctrines the religion teaches. Are they scripturally sound? Look at the practices (holidays, worship, etc). Are they scripturally sound?
My own experience is long as well. My mother became a JW when I was in 4th grade, so that is when my experience began. I've studied off and on for 30 years. I have encountered all kinds of religions and philosophies, all kinds of people, and had many different experiences. So my vision is broad and without blinders. I have done the research and believe that what I have learned while studying with JW's is scripturally sound.
I have to say that I really appreciate the way you responded.
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) story.
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