Was Paul a self proclaimed/false Apostle? (faith, Commandment, grace)

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by Love Is God

Try not to fall prey to confirmation bias when you read something. Try to analyse the information offered and not to see what you want to see! There IS a reason why they came up with the name Pauline Christianity read about it. Here is an example Pauline Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The other Apostles verified him....

[Love Is God]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

The other Apostles verified him....

I hope you refer me to some other bible verse when you say that, cause the mention in 2 Peter is the weakest argument you can provide when you know that it is one of the most controversial book ever accepted in the bible canon. So if it's all that there is.....

[Love Is God]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

Luk_11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

And, yet, Thomas was allowed to doubt (after spending 3 years seeing Jesus perform all kinds of miracles) and Jesus was very comprehensive...

John 20:25-27

So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.” A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

As you can read here, no big drama, no screaming no kicking! Jesus didn't say:"How can you lack faith after all you've seen and the word of your brothers is worth nothing to you! Go to hell you faithless jew!" No, just a simple: “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

So maybe Jesus understood it was not all about faith, and that Thomas was a good person, regardless of is lack of faith and that's why he didn't send him away. Nonetheless, today we are ask to believe in something that to any intelligent person born outside the christian faith, is very much a fairy tale. If the original text of the bible would have been miracouslously preserved that might have given an argument.... but copies of copies of copies.... could it be considered normal to doubt?

[Love Is God]

As another funny fact, there are according to source (Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary) over 38000 chistian denominations in the world. One would think that if the message was clear that woudn't happen. As for me, the message I see is that Love is what outshine the rest. So why not focus on just loving each other and leave the doctrines behind? In the end, only love really matters!

[ans57]

Two opposing proclaimations: By the writers of Galatians and James...

Galatians 3:6-9 "Abraham Was Justified by Faith, Not by Works"
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works are under the curse; for it is written, Cursed is everyone that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith,

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse fro us: for it written, cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree.

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the gentiles though Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through death.

James 2:14-25 "Faith Proves Itself by Works"
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food.

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believes that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John 12:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my father.

Revelation 20:12-13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

"Love God and Love your neighbor as you love yourself"

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the "law" and the prophets.

These things I ponder upon...

Peace!

[ans57]

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Who are these men whom Paul charges as false apostles when in fact, there were only 12 out of the 120 disciples (acts 1:15) that Jesus personally chose from???

Peace!

[O-Ducky]

Yes

[snowduck]

[quote=meerkat2;5282568] Acts 9:26 does not say anything about Paul being acknowledged as an APOSTLE. That has Paul saying that he was a persecutor then converted and was then a preacher, he pushed himself as a disciple then as apostle, Jesus never said Paul you are my apostle.
In Acts 9:15 we are told - But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. - Paul was clearly chosen by God to be an apostle. if not, then a large part of the new testament should be scraped, and we've been down that road before.

[Meerkat2]

[quote=snowduck;20597911]

Originally Posted by meerkat2

Acts 9:26 does not say anything about Paul being acknowledged as an APOSTLE. That has Paul saying that he was a persecutor then converted and was then a preacher, he pushed himself as a disciple then as apostle, Jesus never said Paul you are my apostle.
In Acts 9:15 we are told - But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. - Paul was clearly chosen by God to be an apostle. if not, then a large part of the new testament should be scraped, and we've been down that road before.

Since this is a twice resurrected thread, yes we have been down this road before.

[Hawkins]

Paul's deed is witnessed in Acts.

Plus that God confirmed that Paul was sent.

Acts 14:3
So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to perform signs and wonders.

More importantly, God knows the effect of the Bible and He won't allow His Bible to be messed up that way.

So if you want to deny Paul, you need to show your proofs that Acts is a book of false witnessing. And you need to deliver a good reason to say that God allows His Bible to be messed up that way. Or you have to say that God might have lost control of His own Bible?