Mass Rapture doesn't happen (not looking for preterist mindset) (crucified, doctrine, belief)
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That's a great question. I think everyone should think a few seconds before dismissing it.
That's why I take the stance that it would be great if a rapture happened before all the evil is let loose; but I'm not going to bank on it because it would be too devastating and distracting if I were wrong.
So great if it happens but I'm preparing for if it doesn't.
So do you expect to hear the bridegroom say to you "I know you not.."?
If it were today.. absolutely! Why not? I have not yet overcome sin and I don't love Him with All my Heart, mind, soul and strength. Awareness though is half the battle... so i grow from grace to grace..
Doesn't mean i'm not saved, but then Salvation is not Exaltation... So sitting on His throne would not be where i am today...
Hopefully in time, i will walk as He walked and then, be one with Him and my Father, but then that is for the few.. not the many...
If it were today.. absolutely! Why not? I have not yet overcome sin and I don't love Him with All my Heart, mind, soul and strength. Awareness though is half the battle... so i grow from grace to grace..
Doesn't mean i'm not saved, but then Salvation is not Exaltation... So sitting on His throne would not be where i am today...
Hopefully in time, i will walk as He walked and then, be one with Him and my Father, but then that is for the few.. not the many...
godspeed,
freedom
Freedom, you put way too much unnecessary pressures and requirements upon yourself that are just not required. You should be sure of your salvation and the knowledge that if Jesus were to return that you would go with Him. I know sort of what your thinking is now and the perfection thing, but you've got that all wrong. You're trying to achieve something that only Christ can do!
I don't want to get into another debate about perfection, but it's just not going to happen that way in this life. Nowhere in the Bible does it say we HAVE to be perfect before we can be worthy of Christ and His promises. All we have to do is believe in Him, repent and try our level best to live like Him and follow His teachings.
We can be sure of our salvation, Freedom. We are not supposed to wait until we are perfect to come to Christ...no one would make it to heaven if that were the case!! I hear a lot of people say that they cannot become Christians until they get their lives straightened out. What? That's insane!! Accept Christ and let HIM help them straighten out their lives! What was the purpose of Christ dying on the cross? So that we CAN come to the Father through Him...He bridged that gap. No need to do anything except accept Christ. He will do the rest if we are sincere!!
It makes me sad to hear you say that you think you won't go to heaven if Christ returned. I think you will!! You've accepted Him as your Savior, right? You try very hard to live the life that He lived, right? He's first in your life, right? Then you're going, Freedom!! Hallelujah!!
Freedom, you put way too much unnecessary pressures and requirements upon yourself that are just not required. You should be sure of your salvation and the knowledge that if Jesus were to return that you would go with Him. I know sort of what your thinking is now and the perfection thing, but you've got that all wrong. You're trying to achieve something that only Christ can do!
I don't want to get into another debate about perfection, but it's just not going to happen that way in this life. Nowhere in the Bible does it say we HAVE to be perfect before we can be worthy of Christ and His promises. All we have to do is believe in Him, repent and try our level best to live like Him and follow His teachings.
We can be sure of our salvation, Freedom. We are not supposed to wait until we are perfect to come to Christ...no one would make it to heaven if that were the case!! I hear a lot of people say that they cannot become Christians until they get their lives straightened out. What? That's insane!! Accept Christ and let HIM help them straighten out their lives! What was the purpose of Christ dying on the cross? So that we CAN come to the Father through Him...He bridged that gap. No need to do anything except accept Christ. He will do the rest if we are sincere!!
It makes me sad to hear you say that you think you won't go to heaven if Christ returned. I think you will!! You've accepted Him as your Savior, right? You try very hard to live the life that He lived, right? He's first in your life, right? Then you're going, Freedom!! Hallelujah!!
Hey Dotl, let see if i can say this without sounding like a jerk.... my heart wants to explain it clearly, so here goes.
I believe i'm saved, i think salvation is not something that is earned, it is a gift. One that is accepted and has a few minor strings, but nothing to daunting that anyone should feel is limiting. Jesus did an awesome thing to take Satans power away from him.
That said; I believe that MASS rapture is taught in a way that says,anyone that is saved gets taken up pre-trib. This i believe is in error, and not scripturally accurate.
THere are many scriptures that point out that those that are caught up, (not necessarily all at one time) are those that are the Elect, the Righteous, the Holy. Those that live Christ, not just accept the gift of Salvation.
To me this leaves an interesting hole in the "Mass" Rapture theory, one that shows me that there will be a great number of people (believers) that curse God and die because they thought they were going to escape the tribulations.
One important distiction for those that have been and will be caught up, is that their lamps are full, in that the Holy Spirit has given them of His fulness, and they are Born of God, Spiritually and Physically changed to be immortal beings, ones that can truly come and go as the wind. They are the quickened, which is not the dead that are ressurected later.
If your interested in this thought, do a search on being Quickened (it is a KJV) term. It is the same as Transfiguration.
Hope that explains what i am presenting, without sounding tense.
Hey Dotl, let see if i can say this without sounding like a jerk.... my heart wants to explain it clearly, so here goes.
I believe i'm saved, i think salvation is not something that is earned, it is a gift. One that is accepted and has a few minor strings, but nothing to daunting that anyone should feel is limiting. Jesus did an awesome thing to take Satans power away from him.
That said; I believe that MASS rapture is taught in a way that says,anyone that is saved gets taken up pre-trib. This i believe is in error, and not scripturally accurate.
THere are many scriptures that point out that those that are caught up, (not necessarily all at one time) are those that are the Elect, the Righteous, the Holy. Those that live Christ, not just accept the gift of Salvation.
To me this leaves an interesting hole in the "Mass" Rapture theory, one that shows me that there will be a great number of people (believers) that curse God and die because they thought they were going to escape the tribulations.
One important distiction for those that have been and will be caught up, is that their lamps are full, in that the Holy Spirit has given them of His fulness, and they are Born of God, Spiritually and Physically changed to be immortal beings, ones that can truly come and go as the wind. They are the quickened, which is not the dead that are ressurected later.
If your interested in this thought, do a search on being Quickened (it is a KJV) term. It is the same as Transfiguration.
Hope that explains what i am presenting, without sounding tense.
godspeed,
freedom
You being someone who doesn't believe in the rapture, I understand what you are saying. I guess the question that needs to be asked then is this:
If you died today, where do you think you would go? I'm not talking about Hades or purgatory or any kind of limbo stuff, I'm talking eternity wise.
And you may be right about what would happen if the rapture didn't take place as expected like myself and so many others believe...it could be disastrous. But I won't be one who loses confidence in God OR His plan. I'm prepared for battle, persecution, starvation, beheading, and just dying in general...nothing will make me turn my back of God.
But that's just me. I like to think everyone else feels the same way.
Hey Dotl, let see if i can say this without sounding like a jerk.... my heart wants to explain it clearly, so here goes.
I believe i'm saved, i think salvation is not something that is earned, it is a gift. One that is accepted and has a few minor strings, but nothing to daunting that anyone should feel is limiting. Jesus did an awesome thing to take Satans power away from him.
That said; I believe that MASS rapture is taught in a way that says,anyone that is saved gets taken up pre-trib. This i believe is in error, and not scripturally accurate.
THere are many scriptures that point out that those that are caught up, (not necessarily all at one time) are those that are the Elect, the Righteous, the Holy. Those that live Christ, not just accept the gift of Salvation.
To me this leaves an interesting hole in the "Mass" Rapture theory, one that shows me that there will be a great number of people (believers) that curse God and die because they thought they were going to escape the tribulations.
One important distiction for those that have been and will be caught up, is that their lamps are full, in that the Holy Spirit has given them of His fulness, and they are Born of God, Spiritually and Physically changed to be immortal beings, ones that can truly come and go as the wind. They are the quickened, which is not the dead that are ressurected later.
If your interested in this thought, do a search on being Quickened (it is a KJV) term. It is the same as Transfiguration.
Hope that explains what i am presenting, without sounding tense.
godspeed,
freedom
Freedom,
I agree with you that in the days of tribulation there will be many, possibly including now proclaimed Christians, that will fall away, will curse the name of Christ, because of the tribulations. Whether or not, we believers will go through the times of tribulation or not, truly I am not convinced one way or the other at this moment. It is an area of study that I still need to do much seeking God and studying His word to lean in one direction or the other.
However, I do believe that scripture is clear in saying that those who believe shall be saved. If we doubt that portion of scripture, then we might as well doubt it all. It is very much like what you were talking about in the other thread. It is about faith. Knock and it shall be opened, Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find.
Now I know you are saying you believe you are saved. But why are you only believing that to be a partial salvation. As if the work on the cross was not all. Did Jesus not say "it is finished". He purchased us. We are His. And the bible is clear that we can not be snatched from Him. Now granted we can choose to reject and walk away from Him. But that is our choice. But as long as we believe, as long as we seek Him, He is to be found. He is our advocate who fights for us. He is our redeemer. And He loves us, loves us enough that though we were yet in sin, He died for us on the cross. How much more so would He not do for us if we are calling upon His name, believing in Him and trying to live according to His ways. Notice I said trying.
Freedom, please remember one thing. God is concerned more with our heart than with our deeds. It is into our hearts that He looks for that is where we lay up our treasures.
Does your heart not truly sincerely seek to please God? To live for God? To be more like Him?
If the answer to those things are yes and you sincerely are trying, why do you place so much power on the weaknesses that God knows we have. Satan only has the power that we surrender to him. He has none of his own. He was defeated that day on Calvary when Jesus purchased us with His blood.
It seems like you are beating yourself up for your sins, your failures, your weakness. Why? If God forgives you, forgive yourself. Commit those things to God and try to overcome them through His strength by all means, but remember that God tells us clearly that His grace is sufficient for us and that in our weakness He is strong. His strength, is perfected.
Rely on Him for that. Yes be active. Do your best. But trust Him at His word for He tells us clearly that His word will not come back void to those of us that believe in Him.
Part of me believes that the day of perfection for me and in me comes the day that I am before the Lord and He opens that book and my name is written in it. Up to that point, all I can do is do my best to learn more about Him, more about His ways, more about how He wants me to live and try more and more to live that way. Though I know I may stumble, I allow Him to help me up and dust me off and continue to move forward.
The important thing is not that I stumbled, that a fell, that I failed in some way. The important thing is what do I do with it. Do I beat myself up about it, or do I go to my Father and say "help me Lord".
You are right, the beginning to the victory is in acknowledging that we are weak, that we are imperfect. But the next step is acknowledging that He is not, and that through Him we can be strong, we can be perfected in Him and through Him.
God's word says He seperates our sin from us as far as the east is from the west. If we confess it yes. Thats the key. Confessing to Him. However, Gods word also says that while He hates the sin, He loves the sinner. So much so He gave His son to die for us. His desire is that yes we will be with Him. Why would He then, being compassionate and so loving towards us turn us away because we have or still have a stumbling block in us. If our heart is sincere, if our hearts truly love Him and we are trying. Don't you think God will see that. Know that.
I know there is some controversy around this singer right now but I still believe that God has used him in a powerful way and that the message in his song can still be heard loud and clear. This is a song that to me truly portrays what the blood did for us. Please watch this, please listen carefully to the words. This is His promise.
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Why not? I have not yet overcome sin and I don't love Him with All my Heart, mind, soul and strength. Awareness though is half the battle... so i grow from grace to grace..
