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While discussing the eventual restoration of all in the thread by that name, I thought of these verses, and I had some questions especially for those who believe in UR. How would you interpret these verses?
2 Tim. 4:1 ¶ I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Paul taught UR, so I don't think he was talking about us. "but after their own lusts" sounds like the TBN health and wealth crowd to me.
How does 'own lusts' tie in with UR? I don't lust after UR, well, I do - but in a good way
I suspect you mean 'do what you want and still go to heaven'. Misses the point IMO because if you still 'want' to lie cheat and steal then you are still in the flames of gahenna. (full of garbage).
Remember the Rich man and Lazarus? The rich man thought he had it all because his lusts were being met and God was blessing him.
If I did then what I said on UR benefit was the following:
If God doesn't fit what you think He should be and how He should operate, then change Him to fit you, rather than you to fit Him.
We all do that - only He can tear down our "idol" and give us truth. Our view of the Creator is shaped by familiar senses and experiences, when the reality is He is nothing like anything else - and that only can be overcome as our carnal mind (and soulful emotions) are replaced with His life.
Paul taught UR, so I don't think he was talking about us.
Sorry... Paul came nowhere CLOSE to teaching UR.
Take the following verses for example...
Eph. 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Ga 5:1 ¶ Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Ga 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. 1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses. 2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. 7 ¶ Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: ………………… 12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
... and many, many more. In fact, the predominant message of Paul's letters is encouragement to faithfulness, which would be nonsensical if he was teaching UR, which teaches no free will.
That would be like telling a robot on auto-pilot, heading for a precipice.. "Be careful you don't fall over the edge!"
It is obvious that we must endure to the end in this life in order to be saved.
To:cg81!
About the free will thing.... as I was reading this morning through this thread.... the Lord brought to my heart the scripture in the last chapter of Revelations.... if one doesn't have free will, how then would one explain this scripture?
Rev. 23:18-19
"For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophesy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophesy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Now to me that is so stating one has free will... why would God curse a life out of the Book of Life and from the holy city and from the things written, if God did not give the human soul the choice to choose.
With what I have read in this thread it just does not add up to what UR teaches, compared to the scripture and that is what the Lord tells us to do.. that if anyone brings a doctrine to us we are to line it up with the word of God!!!
And the not having free will does not go with the word of God.... He does give us a choice!!
But even in this statement, what do the words "we are to" mean to someone with no free will?
The method to following Him is to be absorbed into Him. Without some cooperation, we would scream and cry and moan and resist while He was putting our flesh under the torch.
(I mean in this life ).
We also want our children to cooperate in their upbringing, but God is able to reach into us and turn our hearts and change our will - but this is done through the same suffering as His Son; as it is written, the servent is not greater than his Lord.
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god bless and thanks for sharing!
