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Oh gosh...you are sounding legalistic Alan...I have heard this stuff all before and it troubles me and probably the majority of Christian Women in this country would agree. I didn't say that a woman should ONLY respect her husband when he has earned that right.. Go back and re-read my post. I admitted that even when my husband is NOT obeying the Lord that I am to respect Him anyway and submit to God and love God and my husband..thus winning Him without a Word. (I Peter Chapter 3)
What I am saying is that there is an order to everything under the sun and God has placed the man as the head but God has required that the man die to himself and his wife as Jesus died for the Church. If the man is doing what the Lord has asked him to do then the wife will almost automatically fall in place because of the genuine unconditional Love that she sees in the man. A woman is a responder..the man was here first. The man would make things a lot easier for himself and the world around him if he would die to himself and for his wife.. That is all I am saying and it is in the Bible.
Alan, nothing I have said is unbiblical. Just out of curiosity and not to be disrespectful to you... what religion are you? Just curious?
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad
Post #2 was filled with error and is not a correct reflection of the Christian values of the Bible, nor of the traditional Christian marriage.
The values of post #2 are the modern values that are reflected in the high divorce rates.
I believe my posts correct the error of post #2 and set the record straight as to the different roles of men and women in a marriage.
The problem with post #2 is that it is built around the idea that a wife's respect and willingness to submit and follow her husband's leadership is something that has to be earned by the husband first!
That is in error!
That is like changing the Golden Rule to say: "Treat others the way they treated you first"
Lucknow you seem like a genuine loving husband who understands the bible... the second man on this thread that have answered according to the Word. But according to Alan this is not the way it is supposed to work. He doesn't get it and has more or less made the women on this thread feel like slaves that should bow down to the wims and wants of our husbands. This thinking is spiritual abuse to its fullest and I have had Christian Pastors and Counselors agree with me on this one. I have counseled many hours and read many books on this subject.
Men should not have this "better than thou, submit to me woman or else" attitude. It is not Christ-like and it doesn't produce anything good. It causes women to rebel, leave their marriages amongst other horrible things. No.. I don't think that a woman should rebel when a husband isn't loving her in a Godly way and she shouldn't use it as an excuse to be ungodly either. But a persistant unloving attitude by a Christian husband will wear even the strongest woman down to nothing. I have a dear friend on anti-depressants because of a husband that has been disobedient for years.
Trust me I have experienced it and have seen it first hand. It is ungodly and the Lord is not pleased with men that treat their wives in an unloving, demanding, submit to me or else, Bible thumping, taking scripture out of context for their benefit to get what they want way...
Brother, thanks for setting the record straight. Maybe Alan will listen to another man cause he is not listening to the women on this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow
I'm not going to read the whole thread so it's possible someone has already gave the same answer that I am about to give.
I'm a Christian and a husband so I have a few thoughts on this.
First of all this is God's command. Why did He ordain things in this way? I don't know but I do know and believe that God being God, his plans are perfect and as his created creature I just have to accept that there are many things about God that I will never understand this side of Glory.
Remember what the bible said about this, that we are to love our wives like Jesus loved the church and gave his life for her. The concept of wives being subject to their husbands only works when the husband loves the wife like Jesus loved the church. We know that to fullfill these roles perfectly is impossible but it is a standard to attain to.
To be a subject of or in subjection does not mean inferior but refers to position. Canada being a Monarchy I am a subject of the Crown. I am not in any way inferior to the crown but the Crown is in authority over me.
You know that many time during my marriage that I have wished that the Lord did not put me in this position because along with authority comes responsibility. When it has come to many tough calls in life my wife and I have discussed and prayed over the issue and then it's been up to to me to make the final call. I have not always been correct in my decision and the responsibility is mine alone. The man who will not be the head of his family is shirking his responsibility to both God, his wife and his children if he has them.
You are assuming that all husbands are dying to themselves and walking obediently? What if they aren't? Who then is supposed to take the kids to church, bible study, pray, do devotions and take up that role that the man is failing to do?
I don't get it...you are putting everyone in a pretty little box here..and it all sounds good on paper but life doesn't work like that.. not the life that I have seen anyway.
Maybe there are other dimensions to life other than the one that you are familiar with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad
this is terrible advice to give anyone...
It's completely without support in the Bible, and it dooms a marriage, and divides the family.
The role of leader of the family is not handed out to the husband by merit!!!!!!!!!
I know that might shock the women's libbers in the abundance here, but this is the way life is girls, so you might as well lay back and get used to it...
let me say that again in case you missed my point.
The role of leader of the family is not handed out to the husband by merit.
Being smart with the bible is not the only way a man gets to be the faith leader of his own home.
Husbands and wives both have a role and you learn to fulfill that role in doing that role.
You don't get good at riding a bike by just studying how to ride a bike out of a book.
Sooner or later you have to get on the bike and start peddling, knowing full well that you are going to crash a few times along the way.
Being the submissive wife, or being the protecting and guiding husband is not something you learn out of a book.
Nor is it something you get handed to you by merit.
You learn by doing it kids,
Thats it, you learn to be a good submissive wife by doing that role in the marriage.
You learn to be a husband that can be seen as a good leader of the home not by reading about the concept, but rather by putting yourself in that role...
If the man is doing what the Lord has asked him to do then the wife will almost automatically fall in place because of the genuine unconditional Love that she sees in the man. A woman is a responder..the man was here first.
Again, that thinking is not supported by the way we are to live as Christians.
The Golden Rule is to be our guide here.
The Golden Rule does not say "If someone acts like this to me, then I will act like that to them as well"
The way the "if" and the "then" are connected, with the "then" dependent on the "if" is totally the wrong attitude to have as a Christian and a wife.
Men should not have this "better than thou, submit to me woman or else" attitude. It is not Christ-like
Did not even Christ submit?
Did He not submit to his parents?
He who was God in flesh did truly submit himself to his parents, even knowing that his parents had not earned that respect.
Even knowing that as flawed humans, his parents would make errors.
Yet he submitted to them....why?
The answer is: That submitting is the proper role of a child.
It had nothing to do with the parents doing something first.
It had everything to do with a person seeking to put the Lord's will first in their life, and in doing so, submitting to others is the correct path to walk in..
In the same way wives need to submit to their husbands "as onto the Lord" for truly you cant please one unless you submit to the other....
You are assuming that all husbands are dying to themselves and walking obediently? What if they aren't? Who then is supposed to take the kids to church, bible study, pray, do devotions and take up that role that the man is failing to do?
It's not up to me to tell another husband what to tell his wife to do with his kids on Sunday morning...LOL
But I think my advice that I give all young brides is still correct when dealing with a husband that has shown little support for faith matters.
Remember how I said that a husband is not born all-knowing when it comes to bible answers.
We dont get handed some sort of "Certificate of Biblical Understanding" when we get married...
It takes time to become more versed in Bible topics.
It takes a willingness to be wrong a bunch of times in order to learn what is right.
So that is why I told you girls that might be married to a husband that currently shows little interest in the topic to show interest in him!
Show you are interested in your husbands ideas about faith!
show that you are interested in what your husband thinks about Bible questions.
Show interest in his views.
Show him that he is already leading you in spiritual matters.
Let him lead....and you will find that he will.
The last thing you want to do is show your husband that his views are unimportant to you.
The last thing you should do is go behind your husband's back and openly seek out the answers from another source..
That will only drive a wall between you and your husband...
It's not up to me to tell another husband what to tell his wife to do with his kids on Sunday morning...LOL
But I think my advice that I have give young brides is still correct when dealing with a husband that has shown little support for faith matters.
Remember how I said that a husband is not born all-knowing when it comes to bible answers.
We dont get handed some sort of "Certificate of Biblical Understandin" when we get married...
It takes time to become more verses in Bible topics.
It takes a willingness to be wrong a bunch of times in order to learn what is right.
So that is why I told you girls that might be married to a husband that currently shows little interest in the topic to show interest in him!
Show you are interested in your husbands ideas about faith!
show that you are interested in what your husband thinks about Bible questions.
Show interest in his views.
Show him that he is already leading you in spiritual matters.
Let him lead....and you will find that he will.
The last thing you want to do is show your husband that his views are unimportant to you.
The last thing you should do is go behind your husband's back and openly seek out the answers from anoher source..
That will only drive a wall between you and your husband...
Why build a wall when you could build a bridge?
How can seek answers from someone who doesn't know them!? That is like calling the elictrician to fix a plumbing problem. You assume that all husbands are like you. They're not. Do you believe a woman should not cut her hair?
Either you have it within you, or you dont.
Either you seek to please God, or you dont.
The source of that willingness to please you Lord and your husband comes from the same source to be willing to please your parents.....LOVE!
At least you're consistent. A few pages back you suggest that women lie, manipulate, and play head games with their husbands. In short, to act childish with the Man-children they are married to. LOL Ahhh, thanks to the net I never have to wonder how the other half live.
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