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Amen...we left our old church because of a Rick Warren takeover and our pastor watering down his sermons...It's all about numbers with these seeker sensitive churches..Our last Sunday was when the Pastor said, "we as a church, can no longer preach about being washed in the blood" as what are seekers going to know about that? We got up and left and haven't been back...
There is no change of heart. Those are two different situations, that thread you posted was Warren reaching out to a liberal Muslim group who want to work with Christians but have no desire to convert to Christianity.
The only thing that matters is salvation through Jesus Christ according the the Gospel as presented in the Word, not by any other gospel, social or otherwise.
Christianity is outlawed in Saudi Arabia. Virtually every middle eastern country has 90-99 percent of the people being Muslim. If the news is true, then great, but it won't make any difference in the short term to anyone but those few folks that are converting.
There is no change of heart. Those are two different situations, that thread you posted was Warren reaching out to a liberal Muslim group who want to work with Christians but have no desire to convert to Christianity.
=bigthirsty;7853774]So I've made no assumption that Rick Warren changes his preaching. He goes over there.. he converts (per him) millions to Christianity. You are ok with that as long as later on they go get saved in a manner different than Rick Warren says they are saved?
My husband and I battle a little with this, I'm a little more hardcore about it.
Anyone can say they are saved and then go commit a crime, because, after all, the Preacher said, "All you need is to believe in Jesus and you are saved".
I feel it's the relationship that makes you think for the most part, how would your actions please God, at least this is what you should be think'n!!!
I remember being asked at 21, if I was a Christian, for one thing why would I want to be one and who was this Jesus they were talking about. After all, I already believed in God, just didn't know Jesus.
I taught myself about the man called Jesus. Why would you follow a man just because you could get to Heaven how did I know they were telling the truth. I read and read and keep reading my Bible, to learn all I can about the man who gave HIS life, so I could live mine and have eternity with HIM and God when this life is over.
I really believe it is a relationship that you build every day, the best way you can, after you accept Jesus into your life and accept HIM as your Lord and Saviour. You and you alone are the only one that can build that relationship with Jesus.
I do believe God knows if you are a faithful follower and if you are in the wrong church HE will lead you to the right church.
As far as Rick Warren I don't believe in his teachings. I think his church is more of feel good about yourself church, not only his but many churches have turned in this direction. Rick Warren places no conviction upon a persons heart, after all his famous motto "God loves us just the way we are"!!
so you would rather they stay muslim than to ever have been converted by rick warren? if those were the choices..
That is not what I said. I am not sure you understand what it means to be converted to Christianity. It requires the Gospel, and if the Gospel is not being preached, then there is no true understanding of being born again.
Christianity is outlawed in Saudi Arabia. Virtually every middle eastern country has 90-99 percent of the people being Muslim. If the news is true, then great, but it won't make any difference in the short term to anyone but those few folks that are converting.
Not sure I get your point other than there still multitudes in the dark? The way I see it, the more Muslims that convert, the more converted ones can reach out to their former Muslims brothers and sisters. The result should be exponential.
As far as Rick Warren I don't believe in his teachings. I think his church is more of feel good about yourself church, not only his but many churches have turned in this direction. Rick Warren places no conviction upon a persons heart, after all his famous motto "God loves us just the way we are"!!
I absolutely agree.
This message is for all: I am strongly against the teachings of RW, but let's not turn this thread into that. We can start another thread refuting RW's teachings. Thanks!
That is not what I said. I am not sure you understand what it means to be converted to Christianity. It requires the Gospel, and if the Gospel is not being preached, then there is no true understanding of being born again.
No I understand. All say this another way:
Rick Warren goes to the middle east to convert muslims to Christianity. He converts 1 million (the Rick Warren way). They come to know Jesus. 1/2 of 1% of those 1 million (5,000) ultimately leave the church and find a new church and convert again (the non Rick Warren way).
You still don't want Rick Warren preaching to them?
My point is you would rather not have Rick Warren "converting" anybody because you disagree with his message. You've plainly stated that. What you fail to see is that Rick Warren (or really any other pastor you disagree with) is getting "the word" out there. And "the word" being out there is more than those who hear it.. its more than they've ever heard before.
So essentially.. you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. You would just as soon Rick Warren NOT go out and preach his style in the Middle East.. you would just as soon the people not know about Jesus than have them listen to someone who doesn't believe exactly as you do.
Now.. replace "muslim" for "any other unreached group" and replace "rick warren" with "any other pastor you don't agree with".
Also replace "Middle East" with "Anywhere Else including the good ol USA"
Its fascinating really..
Bad face.. bye nose
I'm not judging you one way or another.. I just find it odd that the OP of this thread is "Millions of Muslims converted" and you take that as gospel..(pardon the pun) without even knowing if the "conversion" fits within your theology.
Yet.. if the headline were "Rick Warren converts millions of Muslims" it would be a bad thing..
or "Millions of Muslims join mega church" would be wrong..
Rick Warren goes to the middle east to convert muslims to Christianity. He converts 1 million (the Rick Warren way). They come to know Jesus. 1/2 of 1% of those 1 million (5,000) ultimately leave the church and find a new church and convert again (the non Rick Warren way).
You still don't want Rick Warren preaching to them?
My point is you would rather not have Rick Warren "converting" anybody because you disagree with his message. You've plainly stated that. What you fail to see is that Rick Warren (or really any other pastor you disagree with) is getting "the word" out there. And "the word" being out there is more than those who hear it.. its more than they've ever heard before.
So essentially.. you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. You would just as soon Rick Warren NOT go out and preach his style in the Middle East.. you would just as soon the people not know about Jesus than have them listen to someone who doesn't believe exactly as you do.
Now.. replace "muslim" for "any other unreached group" and replace "rick warren" with "any other pastor you don't agree with".
Also replace "Middle East" with "Anywhere Else including the good ol USA"
Its fascinating really..
Bad face.. bye nose
I'm not judging you one way or another.. I just find it odd that the OP of this thread is "Millions of Muslims converted" and you take that as gospel..(pardon the pun) without even knowing if the "conversion" fits within your theology.
Yet.. if the headline were "Rick Warren converts millions of Muslims" it would be a bad thing..
or "Millions of Muslims join mega church" would be wrong..
its funny and odd to me at the same time.
No, you are assuming again. If you want a black and white answer I can indeed give you one. I would rather Rick Warren preach his message than for them not to be reached at all. They would at least have a chance then to understand what it really means to be born again once they are released from the bondage of Islam and able to seek the Word themselves. If it takes even Rick Warren to break the ice, then so be it. As Christians, we would still want to make sure they completely understand what the Gospel is, and if they have accepted Christ as their Savior.
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