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I started this thread to reveal something interesting about the New World Translation Bible mainly used by Jehovah's Witnesses. A person replied to my post regarding Luke 23:43 that says Verily, Verily I say unto you, today you will be with me in paradise. She stated that we don't know where the comma should be placed, and I told her that I would agree with her if this was the only verse that said Verily, Verily I say unto you.
Just reading the context of this verse clearly tells us where the comma should be placed, especially in light of what the rest of Scripture teaches about being absent from the body PRESENT with the Lord when one dies.
Actually, there is nothing in the Bible about being absent from the body and present with the Lord when one dies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd
What's interesting too is that this phrase is used 74 times in the bible? Just look it up in a bible concordance, and in all 74 times you will see that a comma is placed in the same place after Verily I say unto you.
This is misleading, to say the least. It seems to be saying that that there are 74 times that Jesus said I say unto you, this day....? As best as I can determine, in all of the other instances -- except Luke 23:43 -- where he says Verily, I say..., he does not refer to the day at all. Jesus emphasized the dark day in Luke 23:43 evidently because, from all outward appearances, he was about to die, and would never receive his kingdom. He is saying, in effect, even on a day such as this, I am promising you that you will be with me in paradise.
Bullinger, long before Rutherford brought the JW organization into being in 1920/30s, showed why the comma should be after this day, not before it. http://www.biblestudysite.com/173.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd
Now what's so interesting, the New World Translation is the only bible that deems it necessary to place the comma in this verse after today, but keep the commas consistently after the phrase for the 73 other verses that use this same phrase.
This is also misleading; long before there was a New World Translation, Rotherham rendered Luke 23:43 as:
And he said unto him -- Verily! I say unto this day; With me shalt thou be in Paradise.
I understand that his earlier edition had a comma, not a semi-colon, after this day, but I have not been able to verify this.
I also have heard of some other translations that place the punctuation after this day/today, not before it. One of these I have in pdf (I would like to get the bound edition, but it is expensive!), which reads:
And he said unto him, Truly say unto thee today, thou shalt be with me in Paradise. (American Revised Version, Improved and Corrected)
Regardless, there were thousands of people long before Rutherford formed the Jehovah's Witnesses, or long before Charles Taze Russell began the Watch Tower, who believed that the comma should be after "today", not before it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd
This makes me go hummmmmmmmmmmmmm?
Also to say Verily, Verily I say unto you today, you will be with me in paradise instead of Verily Verily I say unto you, Today you will be with me in paradise, does not make good sense.
It would have been needless for Jesus to say, " Today I am telling this to you." Of course he was. What other day would He have been speaking of to the thief on? JESUS NEVER ADDED THE WORD TODAY WHEN SPEAKING TO ANYONE.
It was only that one day that Jesus died. Of course on all of these other instances the word “today” is not used at all, nor was there any reason to emphasize the day on which Jesus was speaking, for only in the instance at Luke 23:43 was it the day in which Jesus died. Thus the outward circumstances seemed to be bleak rather than optimistic that Jesus would ever receive his kingdom and Jesus’ emphasis on the the day in which he was making the promise.
Additionally, Jesus did not go to paradise to the pay for the sin of the world. The condemnation upon man was death, resulting in the sheol/hades. (Romans 5:12-19; 6:23; Ecclesiastes 9:10) Jesus went to sheol/hades to redeem mankind from the Bible hell, the result of death in Adam (1 Corrinthians 15:21,22); he did not go to paradise on the day that he died in order to pay for the sin of the world. (Psalm 16:10; Hosea 13:14; John 1:29; 12:47,48; Acts 2:27,31; Revelation 20:13) The condition of those in Sheol/hades is described in the Bible as such in which there is no work, no device, no knowledge, no wisdom. (Ecclesiastes 9:10) Good people, as well as bad, go to sheol (hell) at death: e.g., Jacob went down to sheol (Genesis 37:35); Job prayed to go to sheol, to be hidden there, until the resurrection (Job 14:13). Nor do the good go to an alleged section of sheol called “paradise” at death. (Paradise is never depicted as a section of sheol or hades.) Instead of going to paradise at death, David expected to be in condition in sheol where he could not give thanks to Yahweh and we further read that “Sheol can’t praise you, death can’t celebrate you.” These descriptions of the righteous in sheol do not reflect the added-on idea that paradise was ever a compartment in sheol. — Psalm 6:5; Isaiah 38:18.
Contrary to the erroneous beliefs held by many, the Bible never speaks of Paradise as being in heaven. Except for being used of various specific gardens (Deuteronomy 11:10; 1 Kings 21:2; etc.), the word paradise, is used in the Bible to refer to: (a) the garden of Eden, “the garden of God” (Genesis 2:8-15; Ezekiel 28:13), i.e., the perfect abode of Adam and Eve while sinless; (b) the symbolic paradise of God from which the overcomers of this age are symbolically given fruit from the tree of life (Revelation 2:7 — compare Ezekiel 28:13; 31:8,9); (c) the earth after the kingdom is set up on it, as and after its curse of sin and death is increasingly removed (Revelation 22:1-3, compare Genesis 2:9, 10; 1 Corinthians 15:26), and it becomes increasingly (Daniel 2:35) “like the garden of Eden” (Ezekiel 36:35), i.e., Paradise Lost becomes Paradise Regained, which new earth was seen in vision and prophecy together with the third, the new heaven-the spiritual control of Christ (2 Corinthians 12:1-4; 2 Peter 3:6, 7, 12, 13; Revelation 21:1-3)-that will supplant the spiritual control of Satan, “the god of this world.” — 2 Corinthians 4:4; Galatians 1:4; Ephesians 2:2.
Of the three above Biblically-mentioned paradises, (a) was destroyed long before Jesus’ death, (b) is only a symbolic representation of (a) given to the overcomers of this age; (c) is still future; hence all refer back to or forward to an earthly paradise and none of these refer to a place where Jesus was to go when he died. Additionally on the third day thereafter Jesus stated that He had not yet gone to be with his Father (John 20:17), nor did He go there until until he ascended. — Acts 1:3-11.
Jesus appreciated the dying criminal’s manifestation of reverence for God and true repentance for sins committed (Luke 23:40, 41), and therefore on that dark day graciously granted his request and gave him the comforting assurance that he would be with Him in paradise — the earthly phase of His kingdom — when it is established, for it is evident that the criminal’s repentance, so close to the time of his death, did not give him time to be properly prepared for a place in the heavenly, spiritual phase of the kingdom.
I agree with you Ronald. I have not studied this in depth as you have, but this is my belief. Thank you for sharing. I will keep this for reference. God bless.
Jesus nor the thief were playing around in a place called Paradise while they were dead.
To think this is the case destroys the whole concept of Christ's sacrifice. The Apostle Paul never states:
1Co 15:1-4
(1) Now I am making known to you, brethren, the evangel which I bring to you, which also you accepted, in which also you stand,
(2) through which also you are saved, if you are retaining what I said in bringing the evangel to you, outside and except you believe feignedly."
(3) For I give over to you among the first what also I accepted, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,
(4) and that He was entombed, [and that He was playing checkers with the thief on the cross in Paradise] and that He has been roused the third day according to the scriptures,
Christ was Dead, Dead, Dead. He was not alive while He was dead. The death for three days was part of the sacrifice He and the Father endured for humanity.
Also, "Absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" is a misquotation.
The actual verse from the KJV is thus:
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
It does not mean that when we die we are present with the Lord.
Jesus nor the thief were playing around in a place called Paradise while they were dead.
To think this is the case destroys the whole concept of Christ's sacrifice. The Apostle Paul never states:
1Co 15:1-4
(1) Now I am making known to you, brethren, the evangel which I bring to you, which also you accepted, in which also you stand,
(2) through which also you are saved, if you are retaining what I said in bringing the evangel to you, outside and except you believe feignedly."
(3) For I give over to you among the first what also I accepted, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,
(4) and that He was entombed, [and that He was playing checkers with the thief on the cross in Paradise] and that He has been roused the third day according to the scriptures,
Christ was Dead, Dead, Dead. He was not alive while He was dead. The death for three days was part of the sacrifice He and the Father endured for humanity.
Oh, that's right. Peter said it, not Paul, so it must not be true.
Quote:
Also, "Absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" is a misquotation.
The actual verse from the KJV is thus:
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
It does not mean that when we die we are present with the Lord.
This is misleading, to say the least. It seems to be saying that that there are 74 times that Jesus said I say unto you, this day....? As best as I can determine, in all of the other instances -- except Luke 23:43 -- where he says Verily, I say..., he does not refer to the day at all.
Actually, no. It just shows that His saying was, "truly truly I say unto you". Then whatever was said after, was said.
Actually, there is nothing in the Bible about being absent from the body and present with the Lord when one dies.
This is misleading, to say the least. It seems to be saying that that there are 74 times that Jesus said I say unto you, this day....? As best as I can determine, in all of the other instances -- except Luke 23:43 -- where he says Verily, I say..., he does not refer to the day at all. Jesus emphasized the dark day in Luke 23:43 evidently because, from all outward appearances, he was about to die, and would never receive his kingdom. He is saying, in effect, even on a day such as this, I am promising you that you will be with me in paradise.
Bullinger, long before Rutherford brought the JW organization into being in 1920/30s, showed why the comma should be after this day, not before it. http://www.biblestudysite.com/173.htm
This is also misleading; long before there was a New World Translation, Rotherham rendered Luke 23:43 as:
And he said unto him -- Verily! I say unto this day; With me shalt thou be in Paradise.
I understand that his earlier edition had a comma, not a semi-colon, after this day, but I have not been able to verify this.
I also have heard of some other translations that place the punctuation after this day/today, not before it. One of these I have in pdf (I would like to get the bound edition, but it is expensive!), which reads:
And he said unto him, Truly say unto thee today, thou shalt be with me in Paradise. (American Revised Version, Improved and Corrected)
Regardless, there were thousands of people long before Rutherford formed the Jehovah's Witnesses, or long before Charles Taze Russell began the Watch Tower, who believed that the comma should be after "today", not before it.
It was only that one day that Jesus died. Of course on all of these other instances the word “today” is not used at all, nor was there any reason to emphasize the day on which Jesus was speaking, for only in the instance at Luke 23:43 was it the day in which Jesus died. Thus the outward circumstances seemed to be bleak rather than optimistic that Jesus would ever receive his kingdom and Jesus’ emphasis on the the day in which he was making the promise.
Additionally, Jesus did not go to paradise to the pay for the sin of the world. The condemnation upon man was death, resulting in the sheol/hades. (Romans 5:12-19; 6:23; Ecclesiastes 9:10) Jesus went to sheol/hades to redeem mankind from the Bible hell, the result of death in Adam (1 Corrinthians 15:21,22); he did not go to paradise on the day that he died in order to pay for the sin of the world. (Psalm 16:10; Hosea 13:14; John 1:29; 12:47,48; Acts 2:27,31; Revelation 20:13) The condition of those in Sheol/hades is described in the Bible as such in which there is no work, no device, no knowledge, no wisdom. (Ecclesiastes 9:10) Good people, as well as bad, go to sheol (hell) at death: e.g., Jacob went down to sheol (Genesis 37:35); Job prayed to go to sheol, to be hidden there, until the resurrection (Job 14:13). Nor do the good go to an alleged section of sheol called “paradise” at death. (Paradise is never depicted as a section of sheol or hades.) Instead of going to paradise at death, David expected to be in condition in sheol where he could not give thanks to Yahweh and we further read that “Sheol can’t praise you, death can’t celebrate you.” These descriptions of the righteous in sheol do not reflect the added-on idea that paradise was ever a compartment in sheol. — Psalm 6:5; Isaiah 38:18.
Contrary to the erroneous beliefs held by many, the Bible never speaks of Paradise as being in heaven. Except for being used of various specific gardens (Deuteronomy 11:10; 1 Kings 21:2; etc.), the word paradise, is used in the Bible to refer to: (a) the garden of Eden, “the garden of God” (Genesis 2:8-15; Ezekiel 28:13), i.e., the perfect abode of Adam and Eve while sinless; (b) the symbolic paradise of God from which the overcomers of this age are symbolically given fruit from the tree of life (Revelation 2:7 — compare Ezekiel 28:13; 31:8,9); (c) the earth after the kingdom is set up on it, as and after its curse of sin and death is increasingly removed (Revelation 22:1-3, compare Genesis 2:9, 10; 1 Corinthians 15:26), and it becomes increasingly (Daniel 2:35) “like the garden of Eden” (Ezekiel 36:35), i.e., Paradise Lost becomes Paradise Regained, which new earth was seen in vision and prophecy together with the third, the new heaven-the spiritual control of Christ (2 Corinthians 12:1-4; 2 Peter 3:6, 7, 12, 13; Revelation 21:1-3)-that will supplant the spiritual control of Satan, “the god of this world.” — 2 Corinthians 4:4; Galatians 1:4; Ephesians 2:2.
Of the three above Biblically-mentioned paradises, (a) was destroyed long before Jesus’ death, (b) is only a symbolic representation of (a) given to the overcomers of this age; (c) is still future; hence all refer back to or forward to an earthly paradise and none of these refer to a place where Jesus was to go when he died. Additionally on the third day thereafter Jesus stated that He had not yet gone to be with his Father (John 20:17), nor did He go there until until he ascended. — Acts 1:3-11.
Jesus appreciated the dying criminal’s manifestation of reverence for God and true repentance for sins committed (Luke 23:40, 41), and therefore on that dark day graciously granted his request and gave him the comforting assurance that he would be with Him in paradise — the earthly phase of His kingdom — when it is established, for it is evident that the criminal’s repentance, so close to the time of his death, did not give him time to be properly prepared for a place in the heavenly, spiritual phase of the kingdom.
In service of Jesus,
Ronald
“Paradise” appears only three times in the New Testament. This statement by Christ in Luke is one of them. The second is in II Corinthians 12:2-4 where Paul tells of his being called up to the third heaven which he calls Paradise. This was the time of his conversion as related by Luke in Acts 9. The last is in Revelation 2:7 “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”
With that said, I never said that Paradise was heaven or part of heaven or in heaven. JWs are notorious for hopscotching around a point to justify why their interpretation of Scripture makes sense, when in actuality all they are doing is twisting Scripture to fit their own doctrine and bias against other interpretations.
According to the first century Judah (based upon the Older Testament), when one died, the body was to be buried in a grave but the soul went ‘down’ to ‘Sheol’ and waited for the end of time and final judgment.
‘Sheol’ (or ‘Hades’ in Greek), was not the dwelling place of God or Heaven, but a holding place for the dead. It was divided into two major areas–a place for the unbelieving wicked, & ‘Abrahams Bosom’ or ‘Paradise’ for the righteous believers. The dead were to stay in this holding place until the end of time and the Final Judgment.
Again, I never said that Paradise was actually heaven, and that's why I have clarified my statement so that you don't twist my point in regard to where Jesus actually went when he died. To me, it's quite clear that on that SAME DAY Jesus was making it clear that he and the thief would be in Paradise and not on some future date. Jesus knew where he was going as well as where the thief was going since all believers went to the same holding place as well.
Another tradition based upon the OT prophecy, was that the righteous of Israel would be Resurrected when the Messiah came, and would live in peace and prosperity for a long period of time–at the end of which would come the Final Judgment. We know this from reading the story of ‘the rich man and the beggar named Lazarus’ (See: Lk 16:19-31). Note in the story that Abraham is in charge of the ‘Paradise’ side of Sheol. This is not the dwelling place of God or Heaven. Again, I never said that Paradise was a place in heaven for believers.
Another point to consider as well is that of Jesus' transfiguration (see Matt. 17:1-8; Mark 9:2-8; Luke 9:28-36; and 2 Pet. 1:16-18). Peter, James, and John all personally heard the voice of God and witnessed the visible appearance of Moses and Elijah talking with Jesus. Now if believers are just dead, then explain how Moses, who had died centuries before (see Deut. 34:5, 6), could suddenly appear and converse with Jesus and Elijah (Elijah had not died but was taken to heaven in a fiery chariot--see 2 Kings 2:11)?
When Jesus died on the cross, he went ‘down’ into Abraham Bosom or Paradise as well as the thief on the cross. Jesus was in sheol THE PARADISE SIDE of it actually for three days. After he was resurrected, he then ascended to his Father in Heaven as his apostles watched.
“Paradise” appears only three times in the New Testament.
As I stated before, except for being used of various specific gardens (Deuteronomy 11:10; 1 Kings 21:2; etc.), the word paradise, meaning garden, is used in the Bible to refer to: (a) the garden of Eden, “the garden of God” (Genesis 2:8-15; Ezekiel 28:13), i.e., the perfect abode of Adam and Eve while sinless; (b) the symbolic paradise of God from which the overcomers of this age are symbolically given fruit from the tree of life (Revelation 2:7 — compare Ezekiel 28:13; 31:8,9); (c) the earth after the kingdom is set up on it, as and after its curse of sin and death is increasingly removed (Revelation 22:1-3, compare Genesis 2:9, 10; 1 Corinthians 15:26), and it becomes increasingly (Daniel 2:35) “like the garden of Eden” (Ezekiel 36:35), i.e., Paradise Lost becomes Paradise Regained, which new earth was seen in vision and prophecy together with the third, the new heaven — the spiritual control of Christ (2 Corinthians 12:1-4; 2 Peter 3:6, 7, 12, 13; Revelation 21:1-3)-that will supplant the spiritual control of Satan, “the god of this world.” — 2 Corinthians 4:4; Galatians 1:4; Ephesians 2:2.
Of the three Biblical paradises mentioned above, (a) was destroyed long before Jesus’ death, (b) is only a symbolic representation of the original paradise(a) as symbolically given to the overcomers of this age; (c) is still future; hence all refer back to or forward to the earthly paradise and none of these refer to a place where Jesus was to go when he died. Additionally, on the third day thereafter Jesus stated that He had not yet gone to be with his Father (John 20:17), nor did He go there until 40 days later. — Acts 1:3-11.
I am reproducing, with a few edits, excerpts from one of the studies I presented on the RL website:
Due to John, Jesus’ and His disciples’ widespread and repeated preaching from the prophets (Matthew 3:1,2; 4:17,23; 6:10; 9:35; 10:5,7; Mark 1:14,15; Luke 4:43; 8:1; 9:1,2,11; 16:16; 21:31), the people of Israel in general, including this sinner, knew of the coming kingdom, and of Jesus' inheritance of that kingdom.
The kingdom has two phases: (a) its invisible, heavenly phase: Jesus and His joint-heirs, His Bride, (Romans 8:16; Revelation 21:2; Ephesians 5:23-32; Luke 12:32); (b) its visible, earthly phase: the rest of spiritual Israel, heirs of God (though not joint-heirs) including the Bridesmaids, the Great Company (Psalm 45:14, 15; Revelation 7:1-17; 19:9); the faithful ones of old (Hebrews 11:39, 40; Genesis 13:14, 15; Acts 7:5; Matthew 11:11; Luke 13:28-30) and its subjects-mankind in general. — Psalm 37:9-11, 22, 29, 34; Isaiah 60:21; Amos 9:14, 15.
By teaching His disciples to pray, “May your kingdom come. May your will be done, as in heaven, so on earth,” Jesus showed that His kingdom on earth was future.
The fulfillment of Bible prophecies shows that this reign of righteousness and peace over all the earth (Daniel 2:35, 44; 7:13, 14, 18, 27; Zechariah 14:9; Haggai 2:7; Hebrews 12:27, 28; Isaiah 9:6, 7; 2:2-4; Jeremiah 3:17) will soon come.
(6) Contrary to the views of some, the criminal never asked Jesus to take him to heaven.
The evildoer did not ask Jesus to remember him on the day they were put to death, but rather at a future time — “when you come into your kingdom”. Not even the disciples at that time had knowledge of being in the kingdom in heaven, or of the hope of a spiritual, celestial body in the resurrection. (1 Corinthians 15:35-50) They were still thinking of the kingdom being established in earthly Jerusalem, and rule from Jerusalem on the earth. — Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6.
In reply Jesus solemnly assured the repentant evildoer that his request would be granted, that He would indeed remember him when He would come into His kingdom, saying: “Verily [Amen, or Assuredly], I say unto thee this day: With me, shalt thou be in Paradise.” — Luke 23:43, Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible translation.
In view the above, it is evident that the comma should have been placed after the word “today” in Luke 23:43, and not before it, as is done in many Bible translations.
Placing the comma before the word “today” (thus, as in the King James Version: “I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise”) would make Jesus a falsifier, for it would mean that He promised the criminal that he would be with Him in paradise on the same day they were put to death, when He knew from the Scriptures that He was not going there that day, but on that day was to pour out His soul unto death (Isaiah 53:10, 12) and His soul was to descend into hell (hades - the oblisios death state - Acts 2:30-32; Eclessiastes 9:10), in which he was in silence and not able give thanks to or praise God (Psalm 6:5; 88:11,12; 115:17; Isaiah 38:18), and from which His soul would not be raised until the third day — Luke 18:31-33.
Placing the comma after the word “today” (thus: “I say to you today, You will be with me in paradise”) creates no such difficulties, for it shows that Jesus merely made the promise to the criminal on that day, though the promise would not be fulfilled until Jesus would come into His kingdom.
Commas and other punctuation marks, found in various Bible translations to aid the reader, were not placed there by Divine inspiration, since they are not found in the original Greek manuscripts of the New Testament — in fact, punctuation marks were not even invented until the ninth century after Christ — so there is nothing at all in the Divinely inspired record that requires the comma to be before instead of after the word “today”.
Some have tried to force an explanation by saying that paradise was a part of Hades until after Jesus’ resurrection when, they claim, it was transported to heaven. This idea is based on apostate Jewish philosophy adopted from the Greeks. However, there is not one scripture to support this view, and in contrast with this view is the scripture that relates that Jesus HAD to be in the heart of the earth for three days and nights in order to fulfill scripture. -- Matthew 12:40. hades - Google Search (http://tinyurl.com/rlhades - broken link)
Surely if one is in paradise at death, he would be able to give thanks and praise to God, but we read in the scriptures that the righteous in hades are not able to gives thank to God nor praise God. (Psalm 6:5; 88:11,12; 115:17; Isaiah 38:18) Thus, if Jesus and the evidoer went to Paradise in that very day as a compartment of sheol/hades, neither were able to praise or give thanks to God while in Paradies.
All the way through the Old Testament, every place where the Hebrew word for paradise (usually translated ‘garden’ in the KJV) appears it always refers to an earthly condition, not as an imagined compartment of Sheol or Hades.- See Genesis 2:8,9,10,15,16; Ezekiel 28:13; 31:8,9; 36:35.
Heaven is a prepared place (John 14:1-3; 1 Corinthians 2:9; Hebrews 10:34) for prepared people (Romans 9:23, 24)-i.e., those only who by self-denial and world-denial attain the prize of the high calling. (Matthew 16:24; Luke 14:26, 27; ) These are begotten of the holy spirit (1 John 5:1, 18; 1 Peter 1:3; John 3:3-8), and then faithfully follow in Jesus’ steps. (1 Peter 2:21; 1 John 2:6) Such must by patient continuance in well-doing, including bringing forth the fruits of the Spirit, attain the perfection of faith so that they might put on incorruption, and attain this glorious prize of the high calling. — Romans 2:7; Galatians 5:22,23; Philippians 3:10-14; 1 Thessalonians 3:10; Hebrews 12:14; James 1:4; 2 Peter 1:5-11.
God holds all accountable for the sins they commit (Matthew 12:36; 1 Timothy 5:24) and commands them to repent — Acts 17:30; 3:19.
Jesus appreciated the dying criminal’s manifestation of reverence for God and true repentance for sins committed (Luke 23:40, 41), and therefore on that dark day graciously granted his request and gave him the comforting assurance that he would be with Him in paradise — the earthly phase of His kingdom — when it is established, for it is evident that the criminal’s repentance, so close to the time of his death, did not give him time to be properly prepared for a place in the heavenly, spiritual phase of the kingdom.
God did not promise that any who will be in the kingdom’s heavenly phase or its earthly phase — including the penitent criminal — would be rewarded at death; rather, He showed that they would sleep in death (1 Kings 2:10; Daniel 12:2; John 11:11-14, 44; 1 Corinthians 15:6, 18, 20; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17) and get their rewards at the time of Jesus’ second advent, in the resurrection awakening. — John 14:3; Matthew 16:27; Luke 14:14; 2 Timothy 4:8; 1 Peter 1:7, 13.
At Jesus’ return in His kingdom (Luke 19:11, 12), His reward is with Him (Revelation 22:12), and “all that are in the tombs will hear his voice, and will come forth,” either “to the resurrection of life,” or “to the resurrection of judgment” — for “there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.” — John 5:28, 29; Acts 24:15.
Then Jesus will remember the penitent criminal — he will awaken him from Adamic death with the “unjust,” who were not previously on trial for life, for whom also he died (1 Corinthians 15:21,22; Hebrews 2:9; 1 John 2:2), and he will give them a knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4) and a trial for life during His reign on earth (Revelation 5:10; 20:4, 6), in the thousand-year judgment day (John 12:47,48; 2 Peter 3:8), when ee will “judge the world in righteousness” (Acts 17:31; Psalm 96; 98) and make the entire earth into a paradise.
Then “whosoever will” (Revelation 22:17) of these will gradually attain human perfection on the highway of holiness then cast up — “they shall obtain gladness and joy, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away” (Isaiah 35:8, 10; 62:10); all found worthy (the unworthy will be destroyed — Isaiah 65:20; Revelation 20:7-9; 21:8; Psalm 37:9,10; 145:20) will inherit everlasting life, not in heaven, but in the paradise on earth. — Psalm 37:11,29; Matthew 5:5; 25:31-46.
the orginial Greek text hasn't any punctuation marks as far as I know
ΚΑΙ ΕΙΠΕΝ ΑΥΤΩ Ο ΙΗΣΟΥΣ ΑΜΗΝ ΛΕΓΩ ΣΟΙ ΣΗΜΕΡΟΝ ΜΕΤ ΕΜΟΥ ΕΣΗ ΕΝ ΤΩ ΠΑΡΑΔΕΙΣΩ (Textus Receptus)
kai eipen autô o Iêsous amên legô soi sêmeron met emou esê en tô paradeisô
the latin bible is similar:
et dixit illi Iesus amen dico tibi hodie mecum eris in paradiso
and said to him Jesus amen I say to you today with me you'll be in paradise
now you can understand
and said to him Jesus: amen I say to you; today with me you'll be in paradise
or
and said to him Jesus: amen I say to you today; with me you'll in paradise
gramatically I think both possibilities exist, but Jesus was 3 days dead and in sheol, therefore the NWT I think is right, some claim paradise is Abraham's bosom, the 'good' part of sheol (hades), but this has no scriptural basis.
according to my sense for language, I think the NWT is right aswell, all translators have doctrines they endorse als long as not atheists translate the bible
With that said, I never said that Paradise was heaven or part of heaven or in heaven. JWs are notorious for hopscotching around a point to justify why their interpretation of Scripture makes sense, when in actuality all they are doing is twisting Scripture to fit their own doctrine and bias against other interpretations.
I am not with the JWs, but my response was more in general terms, and was not necessarily directed to any one person. I do know that many have stated to me that the repentant evildoer went to "heaven" in that very day, and one kind find many such statements on the internet, both in forums and on websites. I am sorry if, by the usage of the word "heaven", this causes an alarm for any who are more precise in their claims. Nevertheless, my use of the word "heaven" does not in any way nullify the truth that neither Jesus nor the evildoer went to paradise in that same day.
Of course, I am familiar with the extra-Biblical claim by which the assumption is added to the scriptures that paradise was at that time a compartment in sheol and the assumption that Jesus in his resurrection took paradise to heaven. Of course, I do not believe these assumptions, and see no reason to add such assumptions to "the things which are written." -- 1 Corinthians 4:6.
Nevertheless, both the dead souls of Jesus and repentant evildoer were in sheol/hades, and that is where both went that very day. (Acts 2:27) Those in hades, however, are dead, not alive. And since it the soul that is hades, the soul is dead in hades, not alive. We read of the rasing of the unrighteous dead in the last day: "Hades gave up the dead who were in them." (John 12:45,46; Revelation 20:13) Even righteous dead in hades/sheol, however, cannot praise Yahweh nor give thanks to God, and are thus are in the same condition as the unrighteous while in hades, except they have been justified by faith with the hope of the resurrection of life rather than judgment. Jesus, of course, was the first to be raised from that condition to eternal life, the firstborn of the dead in hades. Jesus was not raised from a spiritual death (which would imply that he had been condemned as a sinner in Adam), he -- his soul -- was literally raised from the dead; he not raised from the living. (John 2:22; Acts 3:15; 4:10; 13:30,34; 17:31; Romans 4:24; 6:9; 8:11; 10:9; 1 Corinthians 15:12,15,20; Galatians 1:1; Ephesians 1:20; Colossians 1:18; 2:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Peter 1:21; Revelation 1:17,18; 2:8) There is no evidence that the dead soul in hades/sheol is really a living, sentient soul in sheol/hades.
"+soul +dies" - Google Search (http://tinyurl.com/rl-souldies - broken link)
The sacrificed lamb was slain to redeem those in hades/sheol. (Hosea 13:14) Thus, when he died, his dead soul was in sheol/hades. Having been raised from the dead as the life-giving spirit, he now holds the keys of death and hades, having the authority to release all who held captive in that oblivious condition. (Ecclesiastes 9:10; 1 Corinthians 15:45; 1 Peter 3:18) Thus, Jesus stated: " I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. I have the keys of Death and of Hades." (Revelation 1:18) Jesus did not say that he was alive in sheol; he says that he was dead in sheol.
"Death” in Revelagtion directly represents the death we all are dying in Adam, the death condemnation that Jesus took upon himself even though he was not dying in Adam, so that all dying in Adam may be released from hades. (1 Corinthians 15:21,22; Romans 5:12-19; 1 Timothy 2:5,6) “Hades” is the condition that results from that death, as described in Ecclesiastes 9:10.
To those who believe that hades here means a place of eternal suffering, there is no comfort in these words. One might wonder why Jesus has the keys of death and hades? Does it mean that Jesus will forever make sure that those in hades will remain locked up there for eternity? This cannot be true, because Revelation 20:13 plainly tells us that all in death and hades will be brought forth for a judgment.
In reality, the words of Revelation 20:18, that Jesus has the keys to death and hades, are meant to be a comfort to the church. These words imply that the Lord’s people go to hades (oblivion) when they die, but as promised by the Lord, “gates of Hades will not prevail against” his church. (Matthew 16:18) In other words, Jesus’ having the keys of death and hades indicates that he will use those keys to unlock the gates of hades so that the church may be released therefrom in the last day as part of the first resurrection. — John 5:28,29; 6:39,40,44,54; Revelation 20:6.
In preaching at his first advent, he quoted the prophecy of Isaiah respecting himself, which declares that he will open the prison-house, and set at liberty the captives, and declared this to be the Gospel -- the "Good News". (Isaiah 61:1; Luke 4:18) It is the Gospel of the resurrection, the message, the good tidings of deliverance of all the captives from the oblivion of death, from the power of the Adversary, “him who had the power of death.” Thus, as Jesus promised, not only will he bring the church from death and hades, but there is also to be a resurrection of the unjust. (Acts 24:15) It is concerning these that Jesus spoke in John 12:47,48: “If anyone listens to my sayings, and doesn’t believe, I don’t judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects me, and doesn’t receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day.” Thus, because Jesus came and gave his life as an atoning sacrifice for, not only the believer, but also for those who do not believe (1 John 2:2), the Revelation tells us that those of the world will be raised for judgment in the last day. — Revelation 20:13.
Actually, those who claim that (1) there is a living immortal soul or spirit that continues to live while the body is dead (2) there is a place where such living souls or spirits are in untold concious agony every day, every hour, every second, ever nanosecond, for all eternity, who are the ones who are twisting the scriptures. These two ideas have to imagined in the imaginations of men, the imaginatios have to formulated into assumptions, and then those assumptions have to be added to and read into, each and every scripture presented to allegedly support the added-on assumptions, thereby displacing the true faith in the blood of Jesus to redeem the dead in sheol/hades, while at the same time bringing reproach upon the holy name of the God and Father of Jesus.
In service of Jesus and his God,
Ronald
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Paradise
