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I am with Mike on this topic. For some reason people think it is ok to have thousands of denominations or divisions and believe whatever we want. The bible says "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment" (1 Cor. 1:10). It is not ok to believe several things because only one will get you to Heaven and that is the Truth. Peter called Simon the Sorcerer out in Acts 8 after he was saved and said you need to repent! We need to help people get to heaven and we can not do that by telling people believe whatever you want.
I am with Mike on this topic. For some reason people think it is ok to have thousands of denominations or divisions and believe whatever we want. The bible says "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment" (1 Cor. 1:10). It is not ok to believe several things because only one will get you to Heaven and that is the Truth. Peter called Simon the Sorcerer out in Acts 8 after he was saved and said you need to repent! We need to help people get to heaven and we can not do that by telling people believe whatever you want.
Yes, as I quoted above, Paul spoke of the necessity of Christ's church having ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism even as the prophesied dark forces of apostasy were beginning to ravage the church due to most of the apostles having been killed and the pure doctrine and practices becoming corrupt. Pride, contention, materialism, and the awful need in some for power and authority over others was already creeping into the Church of Jesus Christ in Paul's time.
I think many sincere Christians would agree with Paul that there should be just ONE Church of Jesus Christ, one faith, one baptism.
But it's NOT that way!
Do you honestly think that brother Mike is the one who is in possession of that pure doctrine, priesthood authority, and religious practice, and that all Christians should accept HIS beliefs and doctrines as gospel? With respect for his right to believe as he will, would you choose brother Mike as your judge? Does he (and others who publicly treat with disrespect the beliefs of others) emulate the perfect example of love and kindness that our Savior presented during his mortal ministry?
According to Wicki there are about 38,000 Christian denominations today, most of them probably believing that they've got the truth because of their interpretation of or emphasis on a few verses from the bible. Many members of those denominations would take issue if a member of another denomination publicly declared that their interpretation of scripture was incorrect. Mike, for example, as I understand his messages, sincere as he believes himself to be, seems to feel a duty to judge everyone by his own beliefs and understandings and condemn to hell all Christians who do not agree with the way he interprets certain verses in the books of the bible.
It is prophesied (e.g. Eph 1:10) that in the last days God would establish a new dispensation of time, this one called the FULNESS. Latter-day Saints declare that he DID!
It is my belief that Joseph Smith, God's chosen prophet leader of the final dispensation, at 14 years of age decided to apply the advice found in James 1:5 and went to the woods alone to ask God which church he should join. God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to the young man, standing in the air in glory. They told him that he was to join no existing church, that he was to be the prophet leader of the restoration in these the fulness of times and would be responsible for the restoration of the pure doctrines and priesthood authority that were lost when the early apostles were killed.
You can read Joseph's account of that event at the following link:
Over the coming years, Jesus Christ and numerous prophets and leaders from other dispensations of time, including Elijah, John the Baptist, Peter, James, and John, and others appeared to Joseph Smith and others, restored the authorized Melchizedek Priesthood, and restored keys and authority, as happens when new dispensations of time are ushered in.
To me it only makes sense that though there would be truth found in all churches, in these crucial times of preparation for the coming leap to a Terrestrial state and the Millennium, God would have only one church that bears the responsibility and the authority of bearing off the most important work of this dispensation.
It is my personal testimony that in the early 1800's, in America, the Lord established that church, with himself at the head and apostles at the foundation, as it was anciently.
Latter-day Saints declare that once again on this planet there is available to God's children on earth:
"One Lord, one faith, one baptism," Ephesians 4: 5
How do you explain the following scripture if indeed it is the last days, the fulness of times, and there is not yet a church on earth with the Lord at the head and living apostles and prophets as it was in the days of the Apostle Peter?
"That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in ONE all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:" Ephesians 1: 10
Believe what you will, but should you not be looking for such a church with living apostles and prophets who act on earth under the direct guidance of the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ?
These are incredibly exciting times in which to live!
Okay, it looks like I got my signals crossed. I meant to addess the Latter Day Saints or Mormons,and somehow got them mixed up with Seventh day Adventists. My apologies on that.
Mike, it's obvious to me and probably to quite a few other readers of this thread that you're harboring a whole lot of misunderstandings about the Latter-day Saints and haven't yet put in an honest effort to find out the truth about us for yourself.
Of course paid preachers whose living and status seems threatened as members of their flock learn the truth about the Latter-day Saints are not going to tell it like it is about us, even if they knew it.
It would be much better in my opinion if the truth matters to you that you learn about us from active members and official LDS media. And if you don't care what we believe, then why not just stop ignorantly putting down our beliefs and those of other fellow followers of Jesus Christ? Tell us instead about the beautiful faith promoting things you've learned about YOUR OWN denomination at the feet of your pastors, teachers, and leaders. Then, you might have more credibility and members of this board would not risk being led astray about the beliefs of other denominations that you know very little if anything about.
If you'd like to discuss specific LDS beliefs, I invite you to participate in the "Ask a Mormon" thread on this board. There are quite a few active members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints here, we could help you come to a better understanding of the beliefs of those you so ignorantly condemn.
Here's a link to the Ask a Mormon thread in the Religion and Philosophy forum:
By the way, we're looking for a few good volunteer unpaid except in spiritual blessings unofficial LDS cyber missionaries to help teach the TRUTH about us. Interested?
Yes, as I quoted above, Paul spoke of the necessity of Christ's church having ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism even as the prophesied dark forces of apostasy were beginning to ravage the church due to most of the apostles having been killed and the pure doctrine and practices becoming corrupt. Pride, contention, materialism, and the awful need in some for power and authority over others was already creeping into the Church of Jesus Christ in Paul's time.
I think many sincere Christians would agree with Paul that there should be just ONE Church of Jesus Christ, one faith, one baptism.
But it's NOT that way!
Do you honestly think that brother Mike is the one who is in possession of that pure doctrine, priesthood authority, and religious practice, and that all Christians should accept HIS beliefs and doctrines as gospel? With respect for his right to believe as he will, would you choose brother Mike as your judge? Does he (and others who publicly treat with disrespect the beliefs of others) emulate the perfect example of love and kindness that our Savior presented during his mortal ministry?
The loving and kind Jesus drove the moneylenders out of the temple. The loving and kind Jesus called the pharisees white washed sepulchres full of dead men's bones, He called them fools and hypocrites because of their religious practices.
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According to Wicki there are about 38,000 Christian denominations today, most of them probably believing that they've got the truth because of their interpretation of or emphasis on a few verses from the bible. Many members of those denominations would take issue if a member of another denomination publicly declared that their interpretation of scripture was incorrect. Mike, for example, as I understand his messages, sincere as he believes himself to be, seems to feel a duty to judge everyone by his own beliefs and understandings and condemn to hell all Christians who do not agree with the way he interprets certain verses in the books of the bible.
'Comdemn to hell' are your words. Not mine.
The Bible is the absolute norm and standard against which all teaching must be measured and evaluated. Any teaching which is contrary to what the Bible teaches must be exposed for what it is. Jude 3,4; Eph.5:11; 2 Peter 2:1-2; 2 Tim. 4:2-3.
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It is prophesied (e.g. Eph 1:10) that in the last days God would establish a new dispensation of time, this one called the FULNESS. Latter-day Saints declare that he DID!
Eph. 1:10 is not a prophecy of something still to come. It is a reference to the Dispensation of the Church which began on the day of Pentecost, fifty days after Christ was resurrected. (Acts 2:1)
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It is my belief that Joseph Smith, God's chosen prophet leader of the final dispensation, at 14 years of age decided to apply the advice found in James 1:5 and went to the woods alone to ask God which church he should join. God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to the young man, standing in the air in glory. They told him that he was to join no existing church, that he was to be the prophet leader of the restoration in these the fulness of times and would be responsible for the restoration of the pure doctrines and priesthood authority that were lost when the early apostles were killed.
You can read Joseph's account of that event at the following link:
Over the coming years, Jesus Christ and numerous prophets and leaders from other dispensations of time, including Elijah, John the Baptist, Peter, James, and John, and others appeared to Joseph Smith and others, restored the authorized Melchizedek Priesthood, and restored keys and authority, as happens when new dispensations of time are ushered in.
This is complete and utter heresy. I now say again, that Joseph Smith and anyone who believes his teachings is under strong delusion. These teachings are absolutely contrary to the revealed truth of the word of God. These teachings are from the mind of Satan. There is no truth in them.
And no one has to take my word for it. Just compare the teachings of the Mormons with what the Bible says. Go into the websites of those who have researched Mormonism and expose it for what it is.
As is always the case, there will be those who see the truth, and there will be those who remain under Satanic deception.
This has nothing to do with my interpretation. This has everything to do with Truth.
1. The loving and kind Jesus drove the moneylenders out of the temple. The loving and kind Jesus called the pharisees white washed sepulchres full of dead men's bones, He called them fools and hypocrites because of their religious practices.
2. 'Comdemn to hell' are your words. Not mine.
3. The Bible is the absolute norm and standard against which all teaching must be measured and evaluated. Any teaching which is contrary to what the Bible teaches must be exposed for what it is. Jude 3,4; Eph.5:11; 2 Peter 2:1-2; 2 Tim. 4:2-3.
4. Eph. 1:10 is not a prophecy of something still to come. It is a reference to the Dispensation of the Church which began on the day of Pentecost, fifty days after Christ was resurrected. (Acts 2:1)
5. This is complete and utter heresy. I now say again, that Joseph Smith and anyone who believes his teachings is under strong delusion. These teachings are absolutely contrary to the revealed truth of the word of God. These teachings are from the mind of Satan. There is no truth in them.
6. And no one has to take my word for it. Just compare the teachings of the Mormons with what the Bible says. Go into the websites of those who have researched Mormonism and expose it for what it is.
7. As is always the case, there will be those who see the truth, and there will be those who remain under Satanic deception.
8. This has nothing to do with my interpretation. This has everything to do with Truth.
1. And do you equate yourself and your personal judgment and authority with that of Jesus Christ?
2. Ok, do you deny then that in your own belief Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists, and probably every other Christian who disagrees with your opinions about what verses of scripture mean, are not destined for hell?
3. Sure, many people accept only the few books that were selected by scholars from among many others available as the only revelation we're ever going to get from a loving Heavenly Father forever. That's not the point.
The point is that YOU pretend that YOU understand each verse of those scriptures correctly. And I suppose that nobody else except those who agree with YOUR opinions and interpretations understands. It's all about MIKE! You never seem to be able to get this very important point Mike.
Think, about it a bit! And while you're thinking, consider that there are 38,000 Christian denominations that believe the Bible to be the word of God, including Mormons. Wonder why so many...
4. That's YOUR opinion, YOUR interpretation, not necessarily what the author of that verse intended to convey for all time. Many other sincere Christians would disagree with your interpretation of that verse.
5. Again, you believe in YOUR (in this case obviously ignorant) opinions so strongly that you call Satanic the beliefs of 13,500,000 good-living followers of Jesus Christ, beliefs they KNOW for themselves to be true because God told them so by the undeniable workings of His Holy Spirit.
Once again Mike, you are waaay out of line, and not helping your cause one single bit!
But feel free to accept my invitation to discuss point by point teachings that are unique to the Mormons in the "Ask a Mormon" thread. We'd be happy to enlighten you there, including reference to verses from the bible that you may never have considered before.
6. If I wanted to research the beliefs of whatever denomination it is that you affiliate with do you think I should go to apostates and enemies of your beliefs to learn 'the truth' about you?
Or would it be much more valid to study your official media and talk to active members in good standing with your denomination?
There is a very good reason why the LDS Church is the fourth largest Christian denomination in the USA and among the fastest growing Christian denominations in the entire world. That has a whole lot to do with every single person investigating the LDS Church being asked to find out from God for themselves if Joseph Smith is God's chosen Prophet of the Restoration, and if The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ is true.
It works! God answers humble and sincere prayers....
I personally bear a firm and certain testimony of Jesus Christ, as can many if not most other Latter-day Saints. We don't just go blindly by what we're taught by professional scholars and paid pastors, we discover the truth for ourselves. (See James 1: 5)
7. That statement could just as logically apply to YOURSELF.
8. And only MIKE knows what TRUTH is??
With respect for your right to believe as you will, it is my opinion Mike that you are not only being deceived in many things, but you are also deceiving, doing yourself the things you accuse other people of doing.
When was the last time you read the Book of Mormon, pondered it, and fasted and prayed sincerely to know if it is true? If you have never done that how can you validly judge and rise up expecting impunity before God against a book that was also written by Hebrew prophets, in this case, prophets the Lord led from Jerusalem to the Americas.
That book contains a record of the Lord's appearing to and teaching his "other sheep".
"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." John 10: 16
The books chosen by scholars to put into today's bible do not have the record of Joseph, just a few of the records of Judah. But it was prophesied that those two records would be joined together in the last days.
They are! The Holy Bible and The Book of Mormon: ANOTHER Testament of Jesus Christ.
"Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand." Ezekiel 37: 19 ("Stick" of course meaning the stick around which scrolls were wrapped if done that way, or the scrolls themselves when not stretched out to read.)
1. And do you equate yourself and your personal judgment and authority with that of Jesus Christ?
In view of the passages in the Bible that tell us to be discerning about false teachings,and which I have already provided elsewhere on this thread, we are therefore commanded to be discerning about false teachings. Your question is invalid.
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2. Ok, do you deny then that in your own belief Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists, and probably every other Christian who disagrees with your opinions about what verses of scripture mean, are not destined for hell?
The only issue in salvation is believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. Your question is presumptuous.
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3. Sure, many people accept only the few books that were selected by scholars from among many others available as the only revelation we're ever going to get from a loving Heavenly Father forever. That's not the point.
The point is that YOU pretend that YOU understand each verse of those scriptures correctly. And I suppose that nobody else except those who agree with YOUR opinions and interpretations understands. It's all about MIKE! You never seem to be able to get this very important point Mike.
You keep making false assumptions.
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Think, about it a bit! And while you're thinking, consider that there are 38,000 Christian denominations that believe the Bible to be the word of God, including Mormons. Wonder why so many...
Denominations were never authorized by the Bible. Denominations exist because people don't agree with every point of doctrine and split off into their own groups
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4. That's YOUR opinion, YOUR interpretation, not necessarily what the author of that verse intended to convey for all time. Many other sincere Christians would disagree with your interpretation of that verse.
Wrong. It is scriptural. One of the distinquishing features of the Church Age is the universal indwelling of the Holy Spirit among believers. And that occurred beginning on the day of Pentecost. Your failure to recognize that fact doesn't make it not so. During the Church Age every believer is a part of the body of Christ. (Eph.4:1-16) This is because of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
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5. Again, you believe in YOUR (in this case obviously ignorant) opinions so strongly that you call Satanic the beliefs of 13,500,000 good-living followers of Jesus Christ, beliefs they KNOW for themselves to be true because God told them so by the undeniable workings of His Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit only works with the doctrine that has been transferred from the Bible into the soul of the believer. The Holy Spirit will never reveal anything to a believer that is contrary to what is revealed in the Bible. Whatever the Mormons may believe that is Biblically correct, they also believe many things that are not correct. As I already mentioned, a Mormon missionary told me that Mormons believe that a man can become God and that God was once a man. And that is not true.
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Once again Mike, you are waaay out of line, and not helping your cause one single bit!
Speaking the truth is not out of line. It is merely offensive to those who are enemies of the truth.
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6. If I wanted to research the beliefs of whatever denomination it is that you affiliate with do you think I should go to apostates and enemies of your beliefs to learn 'the truth' about you?
Or would it be much more valid to study your official media and talk to active members in good standing with your denomination?
I don't belong to a denomination.
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There is a very good reason why the LDS Church is the fourth largest Christian denomination in the USA and among the fastest growing Christian denominations in the entire world. That has a whole lot to do with every single person investigating the LDS Church being asked to find out from God for themselves if Joseph Smith is God's chosen Prophet of the Restoration, and if The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ is true.
The reason is because Satanic deception is becoming stronger in this nation which is increasingly turning its back on God.
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It works! God answers humble and sincere prayers....
I personally bear a firm and certain testimony of Jesus Christ, as can many if not most other Latter-day Saints. We don't just go blindly by what we're taught by professional scholars and paid pastors, we discover the truth for ourselves. (See James 1: 5)
God apointed certain men to be pastor/teachers in order to edifiy the saints. You cannot study the Bible ONLY on your own and expect to understand everything it has to teach. It just doesn't work that way. (Eph.4:11-16). The fact that most pastors don't take their responsibility seriously, doesn't invalidate the principle, the intent of God in establishing the gift of pastor/teacher.
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8. And only MIKE knows what TRUTH is??
You keep resorting to that.
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When was the last time you read the Book of Mormon, pondered it, and fasted and prayed sincerely to know if it is true? If you have never done that how can you validly judge and rise up expecting impunity before God against a book that was also written by Hebrew prophets, in this case, prophets the Lord led from Jerusalem to the Americas.
That book contains a record of the Lord's appearing to and teaching his "other sheep".
"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." John 10: 16
The books chosen by scholars to put into today's bible do not have the record of Joseph, just a few of the records of Judah. But it was prophesied that those two records would be joined together in the last days.
They are! The Holy Bible and The Book of Mormon: ANOTHER Testament of Jesus Christ.
"Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand." Ezekiel 37: 19 ("Stick" of course meaning the stick around which scrolls were wrapped if done that way, or the scrolls themselves when not stretched out to read.)
Information abounds on the contradictions between the Book of Mormon and the Bible which is the ONLY holy scripture.
I have allowed myself to be drawn into an arguement which is something I try not to do. I am now putting an end to it. I will not be back on this thread and will allow you to have the last word if you feel the need to. I have stated my case and will leave it at that.
1. In view of the passages in the Bible that tell us to be discerning about false teachings,and which I have already provided elsewhere on this thread, we are therefore commanded to be discerning about false teachings. Your question is invalid.
2. The only issue in salvation is believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. Your question is presumptuous.
3. You keep making false assumptions.
4. Denominations were never authorized by the Bible. Denominations exist because people don't agree with every point of doctrine and split off into their own groups.
5. Wrong. It is scriptural. One of the distinquishing features of the Church Age is the universal indwelling of the Holy Spirit among believers. And that occurred beginning on the day of Pentecost. Your failure to recognize that fact doesn't make it not so. During the Church Age every believer is a part of the body of Christ. (Eph.4:1-16) This is because of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
It appears that you are abandoning this thread Mike. Could it be because what I and others have written has made you uncomfortable and possibly given you cause to reconsider your uncivil (in my opinion) style and your commitment to arrogantly (in my opinion) put down the beliefs of other followers of Jesus Christ? But ok, I'll take the last word then in response to yours.
1. Again, as previously, you appear to assume that YOU are the source of all truth and correct interpretation, and that the scriptures you quote apply to everyone except YOU. I too then by those same scriptures am commanded to be discerning about YOUR opinions and teachings, and where I discern them to be false and/or deceitful, to speak up against them as you do about mine, Seventh Day Adventists, and I suppose many more millions of sincere followers of Jesus Christ had you remained here for the discussion. That seems a logical position to take, though I expect that you may not understand it because you think only YOU know how to interpret the bible correctly and you judge everyone else by comparison to YOUR belief package.
2. You ignore the huge number of verses in the scriptures where it is made plain and clear that although ultimately it is by grace that we are saved, WORKS too are important. Why would God even give commandments if works were not important?
Why the whole bible when He could, by your belief, just speak with a voice from the heavens to each generation saying something like "All you have to do is believe in me and I'll save you." So just believe that the voice was real and let the 'good times' role: eat, drink, be merry, dig a pit to trap your neighbor, rob, rape, murder, steal, lie, so what, you'll be saved anyway....
Why would the Lord sum up all the commandments into one action word - LOVEONE ANOTHER - a commandment to ACT - WORKS, if works were not important?
Are you that naive as to think at your judgment you will only be asked if you BELIEVE in Jesus Christ? (Even the devils believe, and tremble.) Do you not think he will also be interested in how you lived your life? How you kept God's commandments?
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works..." James 2: 17-21
"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7: 20-23 ("Fruits" of course meaning the results/consequences of their actions/deeds. Good things result from those who DO good, bad things from those who do evil.)
"...Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me." Matthew 25: 31-36
3. What's false that is plainly apparent to everyone else reading this thread? I think that I have much more than adequately demonstrated to you how you are stuck in your own narrow belief package and condemn everyone else for not believing as you do, thinking it seems that only YOU know how to correctly interpret and understand the books of the bible.
4. Scriptures reveal that the Lord founded his church on the rock of revelation and organized it with himself as the head and on a foundation of living apostles and prophets. Yes, it was later, as apostasy raged rampant, that other denominations began to be organized.
5. You write "wrong, it is scriptural" which captures the heart of your blindness as I see it. Yes, everything written in the bible is "scriptural". But there are hundreds of ways to interpret and understand those scriptures, not just you own way! You would do much better in my opinion, to be tolerant and respectful of the beliefs of others. Who knows, maybe THEY are right and it's YOU who is wrong about many things!
Again you interpret scriptures to suit yourself. You invent the "church age" or "church dispensation" and declare it seems that every follower of Jesus Christ enjoys the Holy Spirit. (But must never, it seems, contradict YOUR beliefs!)
Also, the Holy Spirit, or baptism of fire as I understand it, is given by the authorized Melchizedek Priesthood. That is plainly revealed in the New Testament when those who were baptized by John (who held only Aaronic/Levitical Priesthood) needed to be rebaptized and confirmed by the apostles who held the higher Melchizedek Priesthood that alone has the power to bestow the Holy Ghost.
(I may continue my response in a second post later.)
Last edited by justamere10; 09-20-2009 at 06:22 PM..
6. The Holy Spirit only works with the doctrine that has been transferred from the Bible into the soul of the believer. The Holy Spirit will never reveal anything to a believer that is contrary to what is revealed in the Bible. Whatever the Mormons may believe that is Biblically correct, they also believe many things that are not correct. As I already mentioned, a Mormon missionary told me that Mormons believe that a man can become God and that God was once a man. And that is not true.
6. I admire your devotion to the Bible Mike. I too love and study those books. But I continue to be astonished at how you fail to understand or at least fail to acknowledge that any word whatsoever that is written other than the exact wording in an accurate translation of the bible is NOT BIBLICAL! It's just someone's interpretation or opinion of what those words of the bible mean. We may both read the same verse in the same version of the bible, but it's quite possible that we each understand that verse in a different way.
There is also the matter of there being many contradictions in the bible. For example:
God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." John 1:18
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." Exodus 33:20
"Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen." 1 Timothy 6:16
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen." Exodus 33:23
"And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend." Exodus 33:11
"And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." Genesis 32:30
It would take some pretty fancy interpreting to explain away what appear to be contradictory statements written by the fallible men who wrote the books of the bible separately from each other, and at different times.
I only wish you'd go to the "Ask a Mormon" thread and ask specific questions about LDS beliefs. If you would do that and would open your mind to the possibility that you don't know all the truth that God has to reveal to His children on earth, we could possibly open your eyes to some of those glorious truths that you don't seem to have yet considered in your studies.
An offspring of a parent is literally the child or seed of the parent. If we are the seed of God, we are God's in embryo or baby gods. This doctrine is taught throughout the Bible but isn't pointed out by many churches.
The Savior was almost stoned to death for calling himself the Son of God. The Pharisees said he spoke blasphemy. Jesus then replied:
"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" John 10:34
In that verse written centuries earlier, Jesus Christ, God of the Old Testament, clearly teaches that we are gods and children of Heavenly Father. Why in your mind would it be impossible for us to 'grow up' and become like our Heavenly Parent?
"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." Romans 8: 16-17
Heirs are those who inherit whatever it is that is in the estate. Think about it!
And it could go on and on, so much has been revealed in these the FULNESS of Times! But you'd have to open your mind to things that are written even in the Bible that you haven't incorporated into your own limited but seemingly rigid package of beliefs.
Last edited by justamere10; 09-20-2009 at 08:57 PM..
The Bible is the absolute norm and standard against which all teaching must be measured and evaluated. Any teaching which is contrary to what the Bible teaches must be exposed for what it is. Jude 3,4; Eph.5:11; 2 Peter 2:1-2; 2 Tim. 4:2-3.
This is complete and utter heresy. I now say again, that Joseph Smith and anyone who believes his teachings is under strong delusion. These teachings are absolutely contrary to the revealed truth of the word of God. These teachings are from the mind of Satan. There is no truth in them.
And no one has to take my word for it. Just compare the teachings of the Mormons with what the Bible says. Go into the websites of those who have researched Mormonism and expose it for what it is.
As is always the case, there will be those who see the truth, and there will be those who remain under Satanic deception.
This has nothing to do with my interpretation. This has everything to do with Truth.
2 Corinthians 11:14 "And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light."
Yes Mike is correct. Any gospel that doesn't square with the Bible is Satanic.
According to Mormonism, Mormon's believe that the plan of salvation that the Bible teaches is Satanic!
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"A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god."
(Mormon Doctrine, page 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, page 8.)
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"One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation" Spencer Kimble - Book of Mormon Student Manual
__________________________________________________ ________________________ This is Mormonism at it core, "masquerades as an angel of light"
And you Justamere10 "love to study the holy word" ?!
Claim "slamming", "uniformed", "hijacking" all you want.....I don't have to ask a Mormon when a "prophet" spoke....you need to quit playing the charades. Mormonism loathes Chritianity
Last edited by twin.spin; 09-22-2009 at 08:53 PM..
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