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Well I am a preachers kid, both parents being preachers, and was raised to believe in eternal torment. I never really had a issue with this doctrine because I believed it had nothing to do with me, I was saved so why should I worry about something that had no effect on me.
However when I was about 17 years old God showed me the restitution of all things (I have posted my small testimony on how this occurred before so wont repeat it here) and everything changed, the scriptures made more sense, and the love of the Father made more sense.
For ones who hold this truth it is a lonely road to walk, the battle field has already been set against you. Conflict is a constant in our lives, for when we open our mouths to speak about the restitution of all things the mainstream Christians pounce. They have had 2000 years of indoctrination and that indoctrination is a wall that is hard to tear down.
However that wall is not impossible to tear down, it might take years but if we are faithful to our calling there is light at the end of the tunnel. It took me over 30 years of preaching the restitution of all things before my mom came to accept it, the wall finally came down, praise God.
Looking back through the years I can honestly say it was all well worth the struggle for now almost my whole family believes in the salvation of all.
Note: I was about 17 years old when God gave me to understand the restitution of all things, but I believe God planted the seed a long time before that. My family was visiting a church in Buffalo ( I was about 5 years old)and the preacher was preaching on loving our enemy, I remember turning to my dad and saying if we are to love our enemy does that mean we are to love the devil?
When I came to understand the restitution of all things, I also knew that answer to that question.
Well I am a preachers kid, both parents being preachers, and was raised to believe in eternal torment. I never really had a issue with this doctrine because I believed it had nothing to do with me, I was saved so why should I worry about something that had no effect on me.
However when I was about 17 years old God showed me the restitution of all things (I have posted my small testimony on how this occurred before so wont repeat it here) and everything changed, the scriptures made more sense, and the love of the Father made more sense.
For ones who hold this truth it is a lonely road to walk, the battle field has already been set against you. Conflict is a constant in our lives, for when we open our mouths to speak about the restitution of all things the mainstream Christians pounce. They have had 2000 years of indoctrination and that indoctrination is a wall that is hard to tear down.
However that wall is not impossible to tear down, it might take years but if we are faithful to our calling there is light at the end of the tunnel. It took me over 30 years of preaching the restitution of all things before my mom came to accept it, the wall finally came down, praise God.
Looking back through the years I can honestly say it was all well worth the struggle for now almost my whole family believes in the salvation of all.
Note: I was about 17 years old when God gave me to understand the restitution of all things, but I believe God planted the seed a long time before that. My family was visiting a church in Buffalo ( I was about 5 years old)and the preacher was preaching on loving our enemy, I remember turning to my dad and saying if we are to love our enemy does that mean we are to love the devil?
When I came to understand the restitution of all things, I also knew that answer to that question.
God bless
Truly a post full of blessings! Thank you, pneuma!
I read somewhere recently something to the effect that our Gospel message is tainted with our own personal baggage. I think this is somewhat true.
If we have needed forgiveness and love, and received it, then we know the importance of it, and (hopefully) we are able to spread it to others in their moment of need as well.
If, on the other hand, we have only experienced coldness, indifference, and a lack of love in our lives, then the concept of God as Love is quite difficult to understand.
That's why we need more of the Holy Ghost experience, imo. We need more transformation, more Love, more of the Spirit of Kindness, Gentleness, Joy...
Well, at any rate, Paul rejoiced that the Gospel was being preached in either case, so maybe we should, too.
"Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."
I came to believe UR from the text of scripture. I was trying to figure out why Jesus would punish someone eternally for not visiting others in jail (Matt 25), so I naturally started studying the Greek and found out that the "punishment" in that verse was specifically for the sake of correction. Everlasting punishment for the sake of correction? In Hebrews (12, I think. I'm at work right now.) it says that the purpose of Godly punishment is to work righteousness, and that makes eternal punishment dysfunctional in my mind, so I started studying the word that was translated as "eternal" from the Greek. There are multiple places in the Bible where the word can not possibly mean "eternal." The Greek word (aeon) also has a plural form. Is there more that one eternity?
After that, I started looking at the places in scripture that seem to say that everyone will be reconciled to God. (The restitution of all things in Acts, Everything in the heavens and earth coming under the authority of Christ in Ephesians, Every knee and every tongue in Phillipians, etc.)
Then, I spent several years reading other people's opinions and the history of Church beliefs on the internet.
Finally, I realized that if I accept eternal punishment, I am also, by default, accepting that God's will, for all of eternity, will NEVER come to pass. I changed my mind and accepted UR.
I still don't (and may never) understand the mechanism for UR. Purgatory? Reincarnation? Repentance after death? I trust that if I one day need to know this, God will reveal it to me. Until then, I guess "IDK" is an acceptable answer.
Changing my mind on this one issue has done remarkable things for my faith, BTW. It also helps eliminate some control and manipulation issues that go hand in hand with teaching eternal punishment.
I am completely embarrassed by my grammar and sentence structure on this post, but I'm in a hurry. This pretty well reflects my experience.
I never heard the term Universalist till here...had to look it up...labels, labels!
It was in the early 70s...my gosh, everything goes back to it's source.
God draws us near...back Home...that's what all the stories of breadcrumbs are all about,
..."Come back to Me, all you who have gone too far and got lost..."
The masters through the ages leaving signs and breadcrumbs Home.
I never heard the term Universalist till here...had to look it up...labels, labels!
It was in the early 70s...my gosh, everything goes back to it's source.
God draws us near...back Home...that's what all the stories of breadcrumbs are all about,
..."Come back to Me, all you who have gone too far and got lost..."
The masters through the ages leaving signs and breadcrumbs Home.
I thought that was Hansel and Gretel.
Anyway, I too never heard the term "Universalist" until I came to CD, either.
I never heard the term Universalist till here...had to look it up...labels, labels!
It was in the early 70s...my gosh, everything goes back to it's source.
God draws us near...back Home...that's what all the stories of breadcrumbs are all about,
..."Come back to Me, all you who have gone too far and got lost..."
The masters through the ages leaving signs and breadcrumbs Home.
Never ever allow anyone to talk you into anything! If the hand picked disciples of the Master said "how can these things be?", how much more we present day goofies, Rosey standing with them!
For me, we belonged to a group of special people who had many wonderful songs, hundreds of them. Some were regarding all creation coming Home. We are singing of something that totally evaded my silly mind and heart 50 + years ago. But God! One must hear Him, see Him, feel Him, know Him!
Revival of an old, old thread started by our good-hearted pcamps.
I am a universalist of sorts. I believe there will be punishment for wrongdoers for a TIME, corrective as would a father for his children, not everlasting as believed by most fundamentalists.
And my switch in views came from the persistence on CD of some who ARE universalists. That got me to thinking and studying--particularly regarding the misinterpretation of 'hell' and 'everlasting' in the Bible. Both words have been routinely misinterpreted and it goes back to Augustine and the Manichaean religion he followed from his father before becoming a Christian. He brought an 'eternal' hell to the Bible.
Everyone likes to say they seek the truth, but unless the seeking involves some changing folks remain stuck in their own personal hell.
That is what I wish I could impress onto people..forget the books
and pastors and tall tales....simply Know Him....in stillness and silence.
It could be on my gravestone, even.
I came to believe UR from the text of scripture. I was trying to figure out why Jesus would punish someone eternally for not visiting others in jail (Matt 25), so I naturally started studying the Greek and found out that the "punishment" in that verse was specifically for the sake of correction. Everlasting punishment for the sake of correction? In Hebrews (12, I think. I'm at work right now.) it says that the purpose of Godly punishment is to work righteousness, and that makes eternal punishment dysfunctional in my mind, so I started studying the word that was translated as "eternal" from the Greek. There are multiple places in the Bible where the word can not possibly mean "eternal." The Greek word (aeon) also has a plural form. Is there more that one eternity?
After that, I started looking at the places in scripture that seem to say that everyone will be reconciled to God. (The restitution of all things in Acts, Everything in the heavens and earth coming under the authority of Christ in Ephesians, Every knee and every tongue in Phillipians, etc.)
Then, I spent several years reading other people's opinions and the history of Church beliefs on the internet.
Finally, I realized that if I accept eternal punishment, I am also, by default, accepting that God's will, for all of eternity, will NEVER come to pass. I changed my mind and accepted UR.
I still don't (and may never) understand the mechanism for UR. Purgatory? Reincarnation? Repentance after death? I trust that if I one day need to know this, God will reveal it to me. Until then, I guess "IDK" is an acceptable answer.
Changing my mind on this one issue has done remarkable things for my faith, BTW. It also helps eliminate some control and manipulation issues that go hand in hand with teaching eternal punishment.
I am completely embarrassed by my grammar and sentence structure on this post, but I'm in a hurry. This pretty well reflects my experience.
Looking at what the words in scripture mean is the key I think, and also willing to give up all of the indoctrination that you have received. The times and seasons are prophetic starting from the creation story which is the overview of Gods kingdom which has dominion over the kingdoms of the world.
1 day is as 1000 years
Heaven and earth created in 7 days
The sabbath day (1000 years) time of healing the nations - lamb with bride
Then comes the 8th day when the kingdom is handed back to the father
We are currently at the end of day 6
What I am finding is that the scriptures are all inspired about all the kingdoms, prophetic and national —— and they are not literal and individual.
Gen 2:1 And the heavens and the earth were finished, and all their host.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God completed His work which He had made. And He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because He rested from all His work on it, which God had created to make.
The Creation of Man and Woman
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created in the day that Jehovah God was making earth and heavens.
HOST
H6635 (Strong)
צְבָאָה צָבָא
tsâbâ' tsebâ'âh
tsaw-baw', tseb-aw-aw'
From H6633; a mass of persons (or figurative things), especially regularly organized for war (an army); by implication a campaign, literally or figuratively (specifically hardship, worship): - appointed time, (+) army, (+) battle, company, host, service, soldiers, waiting upon, war (-fare).
GENERATIONS
H8435 (Strong)
תֹּלְדָה תּוֹלְדָה
tôledâh tôledâh
to-led-aw', to-led-aw'
From H3205; (plural only) descent, that is, family; (figuratively) history: - birth, generations.
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