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Correct Gods ways are not mans ways, man murders, rapes, molests, so that should tell you God does not.
On the contrary Paul my heart see them as evil because I have learned to discern between good and evil. You on the other hand are calling evil good something we are warned against doing.
HUH! I thought you said God gets everything He wants?
I have already acknowledged that scripture Paul, but that was AFTER Adams disobedience NOT before. Just because I do not agree with your understand of a scripture Paul does not mean I do not acknowledge the scripture.
And are you going to acknowledge God does not get everything He wants in this age, but will eventually get all His desire in the ages to come. Heck you even say God does not get what he wants in this age according to love, so when will God get what He wants according to love, would that not mean in the ages to come.
God is getting everything He wants in this age the previous age and the next age to come. ALL ages, He gets what He desires. See murder, strife, envy, crimes all types, all evil, is His desire to be performed and accomplished right NOW. See the God I believe in has every hair on your head numbered. He knows every thought in your mind and how to place any thought He desires in your mind. He knows how to have you accomplish evil or good at any moment He desires without fail.
Tell me pneuma (clay) how does the potter fashion the clay - it is as He desires or as the clay desires?
God is getting everything He wants in this age the previous age and the next age to come. ALL ages, He gets what He desires. See murder, strife, envy, crimes all types, all evil, is His desire to be performed and accomplished right NOW. See the God I believe in has every hair on your head numbered. He knows every thought in your mind and how to place any thought He desires in your mind. He knows how to have you accomplish evil or good at any moment He desires without fail.
Every living creature is capable of feeling both pain and pleasure.
They do not need the tree of "evil" to experience it.
The lying pens of the scribes have written many passages in the Bible(s), where God allegedly demands a sacrificial victim; and its blood, in order to atone for the sins of man.
What would many say; if that which Cain presented to the Spirit was actually that which was presented by Abel? For the pure gifts (plural) of obligation is a Bloodless Sacrifice.
The lying pens of the scribes have written many passages in the Bible(s), where God allegedly demands a sacrificial victim; and its blood, in order to atone for the sins of man.
What would many say; if that which Cain presented to the Spirit was actually that which was presented by Abel? For the pure gifts (plural) of obligation is a Bloodless Sacrifice.
eye for eye, tooth for tooth, life for life. Seems to me to be a more equitible system.
It is not inconsistant with a God who had created us as unique individuals to know that God grieves with us through our process, but knows absolutely that his desire for us to be one with him will be accomplished.
I have no problem with this Phaze
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I do not think for a moment that God "desired" me to to many thing I have done, but I did them. God didn't plan that I would do them, although he already knew I would. But there are things that must be.
The only problem I have with that Phaze is when God knew you would do certain things.
God searches our hearts for a reason, and that reason is to see what we have set our hearts upon. God does not know what we will do until He has searched our heart.
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I may desire in ignorant compassion to free a struggling butterfly from it's cocoon, to "help it out". However doing so more often than not kills the butterfly, because it did not finish the natural process.
Have you really dwelt on who we are in Christ brother? Are we not members of His body?
Most people seem to think Jesus is the saviour of the world, and He is as the HEAD of the body; however without His body He cannot save the world. The HEAD cannot say to the FEET I have NO NEED OF YOU.
I hear all the time that Jesus does everything for us and does not need any help. That is a load of crap the church has been selling right along with other things they have sold.
But if the HEAD cannot say to the feet I have NO NEED OF YOU, then obviously Jesus has need of us.
Brother as members of His body we to become saviours, and when the whole body comes forth in the earth then and only then will the whole world be saved.
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God grieves with us, he certainly would desire that we not have to go through what we do, in that sense, he does not get what he want. But in his wisdom, he knows what must be, he wants us to be one with him, so ultimatly as you have said, God does get what he desires in the long term.
When you say he know what must be are you talking about He knows that we must be disobedient and walk in a life of sin?
God is getting everything He wants in this age the previous age and the next age to come. ALL ages, He gets what He desires. See murder, strife, envy, crimes all types, all evil, is His desire to be performed and accomplished right NOW. See the God I believe in has every hair on your head numbered. He knows every thought in your mind and how to place any thought He desires in your mind. He knows how to have you accomplish evil or good at any moment He desires without fail.
Tell me pneuma (clay) how does the potter fashion the clay - it is as He desires or as the clay desires?
Paul read the link I gave earlier as it answers your question and I am not going to waste my time repeating it all again to one whose mind is already made up, as nothing I have said seems to register with you. You ignore the question I ask, you ignore the scriptures I give and as I said earlier a debate goes both ways.
Believe as you will Paul, but you will have to repent of this belief you hold one day.
Ok . . . one more time. All the barbarity of the Cross was due to our savagery and sinful nature . . . not a requirement of God to pay for anything. It was an unavoidable consequence of our sinful (primitive carnality and savagery), period. ANYONE who had brought the same message of a loving God would have been treated the same during that era. If we had been different . . . the prophecies would have been different . . . but we were not. It was our barbaric sinfulness that caused the scourging and crucifixion in response to the truth about God's nature revealed and taught by Christ.
God knew and revealed to prophets what we would do. Jesus knew and wished that God would prevent it . . . but that would invalidate the message of a loving God and confirm the primitive belief in a vengeful smiting God. THAT is why it was a sacrifice . . . it was a self-sacrifice in love for us all by Christ that revealed BOTH . . . that He did indeed possess the perfect love of God and that He had God's Holy Spirit in His human consciousness. Upon His death . . . He was reborn as Spirit and His Holy Spirit became part of the collective human consciousness and is available to ALL of us in our consciousness . . . Jew, Gentile, or whatever! Our entire species was reconciled to God by His self-sacrifice at our barbaric hands because we "knew not what we did."
okay... sorry it took so long. i was busy this weekend and had very little time to even return text messages...
so here we are. okay...
In one post you say that -
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
The cross would NOT have been necessary if Christ was not rejected . . .
and then you say -
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
All the barbarity of the Cross was due to our savagery and sinful nature . . . not a requirement of God to pay for anything. It was an unavoidable consequence of our sinful (primitive carnality and savagery), period.
of course you mean it was unavoidable in that the jews didn't accept Christ, but in the first post you do not qualify your stance by explaining how everything happens without the cross. I give a point to point post about what would happen without the cross and all you say is i don't understand this and that.
I'm sure there are some people on this forum that think that's very clever. I'm probably not very popular here. But I would think you'd want to talk about the scriptures.
Now i know you think you are smarter than i am as well... that's fine. i really don't care about, but when it leads you to dismiss everything people say and not even get into a discussion of the scriptures point for point, then i should also bid you a good life. I don't think that we are going to agree on this or any of the other topics we've discussed.
okay... sorry it took so long. i was busy this weekend and had very little time to even return text messages...
so here we are. okay...
In one post you say that -
and then you say -
of course you mean it was unavoidable in that the jews didn't accept Christ, but in the first post you do not qualify your stance by explaining how everything happens without the cross. I give a point to point post about what would happen without the cross and all you say is i don't understand this and that.
I'm sure there are some people on this forum that think that's very clever. I'm probably not very popular here. But I would think you'd want to talk about the scriptures.
I talk about the scriptures all the time, atom . . . I have done so in well over 11,000 posts. My hermeneutics is quite extensive . . . it does NOT involve merely reading scriptures as currently translated and interpreted into English under the "precepts and doctrines of men." If you were to sincerely search your heart under the guidance of the Holy Spirit for what God has written there . . . (NOT the "precepts and doctrines of men") . . . you would learn the truth. We need not that any men teach us.
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Now i know you think you are smarter than i am as well... that's fine. i really don't care about, but when it leads you to dismiss everything people say and not even get into a discussion of the scriptures point for point, then i should also bid you a good life. I don't think that we are going to agree on this or any of the other topics we've discussed.
so long.
Smarter has nothing to do with it. God would not require extensive scholarship to know what He wants us to know. I found that out after mistakenly believing it was necessary. I am trying to save you the trouble. It is "written in our hearts" and we have His Holy Spirit within our consciousness to guide us to the truth. But we must abandon the "precepts and doctrines of men" and sincerely seek the truth directly from God.
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