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Where is the judgment said to be eternal torment, Rejoicer? Those who believe in the restoration of all to God as the scriptures teach believe that the judgments of God are for a higher purpose. It isn't about second chances. It is about God accomplishing His work in the creation, which is the reuniting of all in Jesus Christ, the deliverace of the creation. (Ephesians 1, Romans 8) God bless.
Sorry, what you believe is that Jesus died in vain, because even those who reject Him will live in heaven. That isn't what the Bible teaches.
John 15:6
"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:18 The one believing into Him is not condemned; but the one not believing has already been condemned, for he has not believed into the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Act 4:12 And there is salvation in no other One; for there is no other name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved.
Matt 18:8 “If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.
Hi Rejoicer,
No I don't believe that Jesus died in vain because He will draw all men to Himself and restore all to God. The scriptures teach that He will. How will all reject Him forever if all will swear allegiance to Him one day? He gave His life for all men and He was sent to be the Savior of the world. Yes many will be burned, many will be condemned, many will not believe today, many will undergo aionion fire. Those conditions are not the end because God plans to restore all to Himself. Jesus has been made heir of all (Hebrews 1) and loses none that God give to Him. This is a mystery given to the church. Gjod bless.
1 Corinthians 15:16-28
16. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;17. and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.18. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.19. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.20. But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.21. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.22. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.23. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,24. then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.25. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.26. The last enemy that will be abolished is death.27. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.28. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
Colossians 1:15-20
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.16. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.17. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.18. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.19. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
Romans 8:18-22
18. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.19. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.20. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in *hope21. that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.22. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
*hope=elpis=expectation
Ephesians 1: 5-10
"He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He lavished upon us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is the *summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens, and things upon the earth."
*summing up=anakephalaioomai=to gather together again in one, to reunite under one head as in Eph. 1 (mid. voice) (Hebrew/Greek Key Word Study)
God accomplishes whatever He purposes to do.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 08-13-2009 at 10:26 PM..
Not if your not an elect, God offers no hope..Jesus did not offer these serpent seed hope Matt 23:
Everyone that comes to Jesus and believes He is the son of God and takes Him as their Lord and Savior is an "elect".
Quote:
Thats your opinion, because you dont know the True God..in fact you dont Love God, the True One..
I don't know your God - the one that would be so cruel as to create someone for the purpose of destroying them. My God is the true God, the God of the Bible who loves everyone and wishes that everyone would love Him back. The God that would like for everyone to know Jesus and be saved. God did not create Satan for the purpose of destroying him, but Satan rejected God and chose his own fate.
Quote:
32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
And, He is talking to those who reject Jesus.
Quote:
Thats because your blind to the Truth..
I'm not blind. Just because you say so doesn't make it so. I could say the same thing about you, but it wouldn't matter because you are in the grip of some heretic beliefs.
Sorry, what you believe is that Jesus died in vain, because even those who reject Him will live in heaven. That isn't what the Bible teaches.
John 15:6
"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:18 The one believing into Him is not condemned; but the one not believing has already been condemned, for he has not believed into the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Act 4:12 And there is salvation in no other One; for there is no other name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved.
Matt 18:8 “If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.
Jesus did not die in vain, I agree. There is an ongoing message, Choose Jesus, love Jesus, let the Holy Spirit guide you and shape you, repent, praise, pray . . . have a personal relationship with Jesus . . . .
God gives us an invititation, we can choose to RSVP to his call in our lifetime, or we can reject it. There are eternal consequences for those who do not accept Him . . . . .
You dont know what love is, you love yourself and your false god..
Thank You, Beloved57 and Yes I do Love myself because, if I didn't I'd be as bitter as you! Your love has waxed cold! The Only One serving a false god Is yourself beloved57!
Hi Rejoicer,
No I don't believe that Jesus died in vain because He will draw all men to Himself and restore all to God. He gave His life for all men and He was sent to be the Savior of the world. The scriptures teach that He will. Yes many will be burned, many will be condemned, many will not believe today, many will undergo aionion fire. Those conditions are not the end because God plans to restore all to Himself. Jesus has been made heir of all (Hebrews 1) and loses none that God give to Him. This is a mystery given to the church.
Those that do not believe in Him, call him names, mock Him, ridicule Him, and you say that one day Jesus will force them to love Him? Doesn't even make sense. If those people who reject Him face even one day in Hell, they will hate Him more, not love Him. And why would God want people who do not love Him to live with Him forever?
Quote:
1 Corinthians 15:16-28
16. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;17. and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.18. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.19. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.20. But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.21. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.22. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.23. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,24. then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.25. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.26. The last enemy that will be abolished is death.27. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.28. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
Yes, everyone will be made alive, but it doesn't say that all will be going to Heaven. You are alive when you are in Hell. (I would have chosen the word Death for those in Hell, but whatever word is used it just means that they will be aware of their location). When the Bible says "in Christ" it means those that have accepted Him and are His, in Him.
Quote:
Colossians 1:18. He is also head of the body, the church;
And the church is "all the Christians".
Quote:
Romans 8:18-22
18. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
Again, Paul is talking to the Christians in Rome - not those who reject Jesus.
Quote:
Ephesians 1: 5-10
"He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He lavished upon us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is the *summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens, and things upon the earth."
Paul talking to the Christians in Ephesus. Can't understand where you get the idea that Paul is talking to those who rejected Jesus.
Jesus did not die in vain, I agree. There is an ongoing message, Choose Jesus, love Jesus, let the Holy Spirit guide you and shape you, repent, praise, pray . . . have a personal relationship with Jesus . . . .
God gives us an invititation, we can choose to RSVP to his call in our lifetime, or we can reject it. There are eternal consequences for those who do not accept Him . . . . .
I agree with that. The Bible is very clear. You make your choice here on earth - because as C. S. Lewis said, once the author comes on the stage (rapture), the show is over!
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
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Jesus did not die in vain, I agree. There is an ongoing message, Choose Jesus, love Jesus, let the Holy Spirit guide you and shape you, repent, praise, pray . . . have a personal relationship with Jesus . . . . 
