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I came across an online book which was able to successfully debunk ET, however it also made some valid points against UR as well, here is the section from the book on universalism, perhaps they can be addressed in this thread
Quote:
Universalism – Will All Be Saved Eventually?
The religious traditional teaching that hell refers to never-ending fiery conscious torture has naturally given birth to the doctrine of universalism, also known as universal restoration or restorationism. Universalism teaches that all people will eventually be saved – even evil, ungodly people. Evidently, universalists believe such people will go through some kind of purging process before acquiring eternal life. Universalists who claim to adhere to the teachings of scripture suggest that the purpose of the lake of fire is not to torment or consume, but to purge people of evil in preparation to receiving eternal life. They base their belief in universal salvation on a smattering of biblical texts, such as:
1CORINTHIANS 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
2CORINTHIANS 5:19a that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them.
1TIMOTHY 4:10b … God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
Universalism is an appealing notion in some ways, but it goes against the clear teachings of scripture. We’ve seen throughout this study that the bible plainly indicates two possible destinies for humankind: life or death, salvation or destruction. The idea that people cast into the lake of fire will eventually be purged of their sins and receive eternal life would make utter nonsense of the scriptures. Let’s consider a few examples:
What the bible states: “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
-- Matthew 7:13-14
How we’d have to interpret this text if universalism is true: “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it (though they’ll ultimately be purified and blessed with eternal life). But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it (yet everyone else will eventually find it too).”
What the bible states: “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna).” – Matthew 10:28
How we’d have to interpret this text if universalism is true: “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna) but will eventually restore these people and grant them eternal life.”
What the bible states: “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.” – John 3:36
How we’d have to interpret this text if universalism is true: “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him – but he’ll eventually receive eternal life too.”
What the bible states: “for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out – those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.” – John 5:28-29
How we’d have to interpret this text if universalism is true: “for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out – those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned, but the latter will eventually rise to live as well.”
What the bible states: The one who sows to please the sinful nature from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the spirit, from the spirit will reap eternal life. – Galations 6:8
How we’d have to interpret this text if universalism is true: The one who sows to please the sinful nature from that nature will reap destruction, but will eventually be restored and granted eternal life; the one who sows to please the spirit, from the spirit will reap eternal life.
What the bible states: There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and destroy. – James 4:12a
How we’d have to interpret this text if universalism is true: There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and destroy (but He will ultimately restore and redeem those whom He destroys and grant them eternal life).
I could go on and on here. As you can plainly see, the notion of universal salvation renders the scriptures utterly nonsensical.
Certainly, as 1Timothy 2:4 points out, God “wants all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth,” in fact this is the very reason why this section of scripture encourages believers to offer prayers for “everyone” (see verse 1); but what can God do if people freely choose to reject his offer of reconciliation and eternal life in favor of “sin, which leads to death” (Romans 6:16)? I’ve heard the question: Since God is all-powerful could He create a stone so big that he couldn’t move it? The answer is yes, the human heart.
The reason all people can’t be saved is simply because God respects our freewill choices. He did not create robots, so he can’t force people to choose reconciliation and receive eternal life. People who reject God in favor of sin are openly choosing destruction, the wages of sin. So God will ultimately accommodate them. Their fate is really self-destruction – or suicide – because God is only giving them what their freewill actions justly deserve. Will He enjoy this? Of course not, he doesn’t want “anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance” (2Peter 3:9).
Another argument that universalists make is that the English words “eternal” and “everlasting” are translated from the Greek word aionios which more properly means “age-lasting,” they contend therefore that “eternal punishment” and “everlasting destruction” refer more specifically to ‘punishment that lasts an age’ and ‘destruction that lasts an age.’ Their point is that the punishment and destruction of the ungodly may indeed last an eon of time, but it certainly won’t last forever and ever. They are right about aionios (see Chapter Four) but there are two obvious problems with this argument: 1.) “The age to come” spoken of in the bible (e.g. Mark 10:29-30) is a perpetual age and therefore God’s age-lasting punishment of utter destruction will last perpetually. 2.) God’s age-lasting punishment of age-lasting destruction is always spoken of in direct contrast to the age-lasting life that God will grant the righteous (e.g. Matthew 25:46), since the age-lasting life that God grants the righteous is eternal we must properly conclude that the age-lasting destruction of the ungodly will be just as eternal.
There’s no getting around it, universalism is simply incompatible with clear biblical teaching and is therefore not a valid option to consider.
Yet universalism is a popular view held by a growing number of Christians throughout the world. What spurs so many to embrace this erroneous view? The answer is obvious:
For various reasons most of these people have overlooked the doctrine of literal everlasting destruction. Because of religious tradition they naturally assume two things: 1.) that people can never cease to exist because they have “immortal souls,” and 2.) that “hell” must refer to never-ending fiery conscious torment. The latter assumption, as already covered, is the ultimate evil – the worst conceivable concept. It is so profoundly disturbing that these people feel they must reject the idea of eternal damnation altogether.
Once the idea of hell is discarded the only option left for them is universalism. The problem with this is that, in accepting universalism, these people are rejecting the authority of God’s Word, which clearly teaches that many are doomed to be cast into the lake of fire to suffer the second death. Rejecting the authority of the Holy Scriptures can lead to nothing but spiritual degeneration and apostasy.
Literal everlasting destruction is the sound medium between the two extremes of eternal torture and universalism. Eternal torture is ridiculously too severe, yet universalism is ridiculously too lenient. Eternal torture is sadistic, immoral and unjust, yet universalism suggests that people can do whatever evil they want and still ultimately be blessed with everlasting life and reconciliation. This would of course make universalism unjust as well. Both these extremes should be rejected in favor of everlasting destruction – the balanced, acceptable, reasonable and scriptural view on the matter.
Those who adhere to universal salvation should be commended for their great love of all people and their bold opposition to the sadistic notion of eternal torture, but their deviation from the clear teachings of scripture cannot be condoned. Their overemphasis on love has caused them to become unbalanced in their overview of Holy Scripture; it clouds their understanding of freewill and the true hideousness of evil and rebellion. Far fewer Christians would revert to the apostasy of universalism if they would simply do two things: 1.) research the biblical authenticity of literal everlasting destruction which maintains that those who “reject the Son will not see life” (why would Jesus even say this if no one would reject him?)
Where I personally disagree with one of his points, the main one being the issue of freewill and robots, there are many scripture that indicate God's sovereignty
Isaiah 46v10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure
Another argument that universalists make is that the English words “eternal” and “everlasting” are translated from the Greek word aionios which more properly means “age-lasting,” they contend therefore that “eternal punishment” and “everlasting destruction” refer more specifically to ‘punishment that lasts an age’ and ‘destruction that lasts an age.’ Their point is that the punishment and destruction of the ungodly may indeed last an eon of time, but it certainly won’t last forever and ever. They are right about aionios (see Chapter Four) but there are two obvious problems with this argument: 1.) “The age to come” spoken of in the bible (e.g. Mark 10:29-30) is a perpetual age and therefore God’s age-lasting punishment of utter destruction will last perpetually. 2.) God’s age-lasting punishment of age-lasting destruction is always spoken of in direct contrast to the age-lasting life that God will grant the righteous (e.g. Matthew 25:46), since the age-lasting life that God grants the righteous is eternal we must properly conclude that the age-lasting destruction of the ungodly will be just as eternal
Hi Sherry, I only have time to address this one right now. God created the ages.
Hebrews1
1In many parts, and many ways, God of old having spoken to the fathers in the prophets, 2in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;n many parts, and many ways, God of old having spoken to the fathers in the prophets, (YLT)
Ages have a beginning and they have an end. The scriptures refer to past ages, the present age, and ages to come. They cannot be eternal if they have a beginning and an end.
There was "a secret concealed from the aions" (ages) (past) (Eph.3:9)
There was "the preparation of the aions"(ages) (past) (Heb.11:3)
There is "the present wicked aion" (age)(present) (Gal.1:4)
There is "the conclusion of the current aion" (age) (present) (Matt 28:20)
There will be "the comingaion" (age)(future) (Luke 18:30)
There will be "the oncoming aions" (ages)(future) (Eph.2:7)
An age has a beginning and an end. The age to come will have a beginning and an end. After the ages have been completed, God will be all in all. Life pertaining to the ages (age lasting) become eternal once we have immortality. Immortality is not the same as aionios life. Believers who have aionios life, have been promised immortality.
1 Corinthians 15:
50 50And this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood the reign of God is not able to inherit, nor doth the corruption inherit the incorruption; 51lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed; 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible (aphthartoi), and we -- we shall be changed: 53for it behoveth this corruptible to put on incorruption (aphtharsian), and this mortal to put on immortality; (athanasian) 54and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, `The Death was swallowed up -- to victory; 55where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?'
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 08-01-2009 at 09:33 AM..
I came across an online book which was able to successfully debunk ET, however it also made some valid points against UR as well, here is the section from the book on universalism, perhaps they can be addressed in this thread
What the bible states: There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and destroy. – James 4:12a
How we’d have to interpret this text if universalism is true: There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and destroy (but He will ultimately restore and redeem those whom He destroys and grant them eternal life).
Hosea 6:1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. 2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
Deuteronomy 4:26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong [your] days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed. 27 And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you. 28 And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. 29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. 30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; 31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God; he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.
Deuteronomy 29:19 And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst: 20 The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.
Deuteronomy 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee, 2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; 3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. 4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: 5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. 6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
I came across an online book which was able to successfully debunk ET, however it also made some valid points against UR as well, here is the section from the book on universalism, perhaps they can be addressed in this thread
Where I personally disagree with one of his points, the main one being the issue of freewill and robots, there are many scripture that indicate God's sovereignty
Isaiah 46v10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure
Not to mention Romans chapter 9
You posted a lot of many of those are the same old arguments that are improperly translated. Take this one for example, that you quoted:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Notice that bolded part. Eters and annilationist like to attempt to refute universalism with such verses. They want us to believe the verse is saying that FEW will EVER FIND it, which is completely FALSE. But that sure LOOKS like what it says - doesn't it? But let's really analyze it:
I have highlighted the word translated for "find" in the Greek. Notice the parsing after it that says V-PAP-NPM. The V means this is a verb. The next P shows this is PRESENT Tense. The A then shows it is the active voice. So this means that the verse doesn't indicate a FUTURE it indicate present. This means that there were few finding it when Jesus said those words AT THAT very MOMENT. To read more into that and apply it to the Future is using DECEPTION. Let's look at how Young's Literal Translation translates the verse:
Mat 7:14 how strait is the gate, and compressed the way that is leading to the life, and few are those finding it!
Notice the difference? You quoted a lot of verses and many of the arguments of universalism are filled with the same problems. But when we investigate the actual references then we get a a better vision of the Truth. If you want to take certain verses that you presented and go through individually then we can debate each one if you like.
Then the Catholics had it right all along with their doctrine of Purgatory. Maybe they ARE the one true religion!
Actually I believe Judaism has that concept as well, which logically is where christianity should follow on from the difference being that christians recognize Jesus as the messiah
I came across an online book which was able to successfully debunk ET, however it also made some valid points against UR as well, here is the section from the book on universalism, perhaps they can be addressed in this thread
Actually, this person makes the points I had already learned, but way better explained.
Yes, I went from the one extreme of eternal torment, to the other being universal reconciliation. But both were found to be false teachings, designed to either enslave people due to politics and control, and the other being total anarchy in it's concept, as the end result is the same being "saved".
There HAS to be, and IS according to scripture, the narrow Gate, and few that find it. Why? Because Jesus said so, and it is enough for me. This debate concerning scriptures, and what the Spirit actually meant, and the men who even died while trying to get the Bible to the masses by some slick parlor trick designed to keep men enslaved while they were tortured and put to death. So we think the Bible doesn't mean what it says due to a translational issue? Please! Get off the ego horse.
You all have NOT found some "secret" Truth that is only being made manifest is this life. Jesus is the way, in this life now. He is the Door, in this life now. He is the Gate, in this life now. There are NO second chances beyond the grave for those who have heard the Good News. It is still, after thousands of years since Adam and Eve, free will to decide what path we follow. Seek Him first!
I came across an online book which was able to successfully debunk ET, however it also made some valid points against UR as well, here is the section from the book on universalism, perhaps they can be addressed in this thread
It "succesfully debunks" E.T. but it makes "valid points" against universalism.....hmmmmm . You think were stupid don't ya....LOL I swear you universalists have no shame when trying to represent your position.
I wasn't born yesterday
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. You think were stupid don't ya....LOL 
I swear you universalists have no shame when trying to represent your position.
