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Pcamps, you neglect the whole history of Israel when you claim that works are not a part of salvation. Remember the law and the prophets were our SCHOOLMASTER bringing us to Christ. When it says that Jesus didn't sin - it means that Jesus didn't break the Law of God. Pcamps, it sounds like you have embraced the doctrine of the nicolatanes and believe that simple believing in Christ but walking contrary to His Law is acceptable.
Pcamps, stop believing that Dead Faith can access Grace. Start believing in God's Word.
The works we rest from are our OWN works - His Works don't need to be rested from. His burden is light. It is HIS Works that are required to save us by us performing them. We don't own them - He does. If you have missed this understanding from scripture then you missed the NECESSARY ingredient to be saved.
Pcamps, you WILL NOT find in scripture a contradiction to what I'm saying. I CHALLENGE you to find contradiction in what I'm saying. Remember, Paul says that ETERNAL Life is based on Works!!! Ask yourself why would he say such a thing? Why would Paul say in one break that Grace is not of works and in another breath say that Eternal Life would be rendered based on works? - The answer is that works that they are based on is His (Jesus Christ) works. HOW ELSE CAN IT BE RECONCILED? Once you understand this a great cloud is lifted and you can now perceive just HOW we are being saved.
You don't know God if this is what you believe. No one is denying works i have not said it neither as Mike 555 , you are saying we are denying it. My issue with you is you are basing salvation on works , i am saying to you because of our salvation through grace , a believer through that grace enters into relationship with God and knows(relationship) Him then becomes intimate as a husband and wife would thus bringing forth fruit.
John 17
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
You think you are being clever but you are ignorant of the fact that the life of God flows from intimacy with the believer.
Pcamps, you can think you know about this matter but your completely lacking in it. Again, Paul says that works are a requirement to receive Eternal Life. James says that Faith without works is dead. I don't have to spin these things around like others do in their theology. Listen to some in this thread already. It doesn't fit so they are trying to hammer it through the hole.
You can sit in your pride and decide you have it all have need nothing or you can look to what I say to see if it contradicts scripture. Remember I'm challenging you - you have only to gain if I'm right.
Pcamps, you can think you know about this matter but your completely lacking in it. Again, Paul says that works are a requirement to receive Eternal Life. James says that Faith without works is dead. I don't have to spin these things around like others do in their theology. Listen to some in this thread already. It doesn't fit so they are trying to hammer it through the hole.
You can sit in your pride and decide you have it all have need nothing or you can look to what I say to see if it contradicts scripture. Remember I'm challenging you - you have only to gain if I'm right.
Jesus's words
John 17
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Now read my last post again then read John 15 better still read the whole book of John.
What you believe says you are full of pride and have no idea what grace is to you personally.Are you the last word on the written word or something? , how can i respect what you have to say when you reject that the life of Jesus in the believer does not come forth but through death of ourselves and intimacy with Him ?.
You seem very much like you are saying you are more knowledgeable of the scriptures than i , that's ok , but it's not if you do not know the Lord because this is what faith in Jesus is all about.
What you also fail to understand is God is working in us both to will and to do , He is the author and finisher of our faith,He that began a good work in me will complete it.
So i challenge you to show me from the scripture to show me that it is not God working in us , infact the scripture that pulls the rug from all what you are saying is "it is no longer i that lives but Christ living in me". The Lord is bring us all to this.
You don't know God if this is what you believe. No one is denying works i have not said it neither as Mike 555 , you are saying we are denying it. My issue with you is you are basing salvation on works , i am saying to you because of our salvation through grace , a believer through that grace enters into relationship with God and knows(relationship) Him then becomes intimate as a husband and wife would thus bringing forth fruit.
John 17
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
You think you are being clever but you are ignorant of the fact that the life of God flows from intimacy with the believer.
Salvation is based on works. I would have to just throw the Bible in the trash to conclude otherwise.
Pcamps, if you want to continue to believe that the branch bearing no fruit will remain in the vine then your have got a different Bible than I have.
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Now read my last post again then read John 15 better still read the whole book of John.
What you believe says you are full of pride and have no idea what grace is to you personally.Are you the last word on the written word or something? , how can i respect what you have to say when you reject that the life of Jesus in the believer does not come forth but through death of ourselves and intimacy with Him ?.
You seem very much like you are saying you are more knowledgeable of the scriptures than i , that's ok , but it's not if you do not know the Lord because this is what faith in Jesus is all about.
Pcamps, your dead faith accessing Grace theology is flawed. Again, Pcamps, that is what you preach. You preach that Dead Faith can access Grace.
What you also fail to understand is God is working in us both to will and to do , He is the author and finisher of our faith,He that began a good work in me will complete it.
So i challenge you to show me from the scripture to show me that it is not God working in us , infact the scripture that pulls the rug from all what you are saying is "it is no longer i that lives but Christ living in me". The Lord is bring us all to this.
LOL, IS THAT TRUE? - Am I really failing to realize that? Isn't that EXACTLY what I'm saying when I say that we must perform His Works? Does that sound like it can be of anyone elses will but Gods? Come on Pcamps, are you just not reading what I post? So nothing to challenge there Pcamps, since I have been saying that it is His will.
But what is interesting is that your saying that His will is NOT necessary to be saved. His will is being exercised in WORKS. Don't you get that, Pcamps? What other evidence would there be that His will is being done in us if we are not doing according to His will?
But my challenge remains Pcamps, where can you find that performing His works is not a requirement for salvation? Again, where can you find that Dead Faith can access Grace?
Pcamps, I hope that statement of "I believe you" means that the light bulb has come on and that God has filled you will more knowledge about His saving power. The key is we are to become CHRISTLike in order to be saved. Jesus said to follow Him - He didn't just say believe in what I did. He wants us to continue to believe and DO what He does.
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