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I never said there was three gods. What I said was those who come to the conclusion (denying the trinity) do so in part because if it doesn't fit into human reason or comprehension, the conclusion must be its not true.... which is not to believe God's Word.
Sure I could show where Jesus refers himself to be God, I could show were other prophets\disciples call Jesus God. However if Jesus himself couldn't persuade those who refused to believe, you're expecting that I can?
You are saying to use God's Word. Jesus nor anyone else refers to the Trinity. Nor does anyone refer to Jesus as God, including Jesus.
Jesus couldn't convince those who refused to believe in what? His Godhood?
Jesus is almost stoned for some thinking he says he is God. He responds by restating his unity with God. "I am in the Father and he is in me". In his last prayer he states he wants believers to have the same relationship with God as he does... So does that mean we too will be gods?
You are saying to use God's Word. Jesus nor anyone else refers to the Trinity. Nor does anyone refer to Jesus as God, including Jesus.
Yes they do. Isaiah 9:6
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" —which means, "God with us."
John 20:28
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
The Father spoke, the Son (Jesus) was in the water, the Holy Spirit decended. That is the Godhead.
Colossians 2:9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
(research the word deity)
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
Jesus couldn't convince those who refused to believe in what? His Godhood?
Yes. And just like the Pharisee's, there are those who surround Jesus today, looking for ways to disprove him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
Jesus is almost stoned for some thinking he says he is God. He responds by restating his unity with God. "I am in the Father and he is in me". In his last prayer he states he wants believers to have the same relationship with God as he does... So does that mean we too will be gods?
No, that is what unbelief concludes.....surprised?
Your question about the religious beliefs of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is more appropriate for the "Ask a Mormon" thread, I'd be pleased to respond to it if you post it there:
Which is probably the best place for your Mormon answers about the trinity
The "trinity" is a common subject of discussion among Christians of almost all denominations. It is being discussed probably quite appropriately in this thread, it seems to come up a lot.
But what you asked was a provocative question about a specifically LDS understanding. Again, since you are interested enough to ask the question, I invite you to a civil discussion about Mormon beliefs in the "Ask a Mormon" thread in Religion and Philosophy.
Yes they do. Isaiah 9:6
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
My husband is called Jonathan, which means "gift of God"
Israel means "Challenge God", "he struggles with God", or "fight with God". It also means "Defeat God" (jacobs name changes to Israel after he defeats God)
Ezekiel means "Strong God". It also means "Yahweh is Strong God".
Abram means "High Father"
Gabriel means "Hero of God"
Isaiah means "Salvation by God"
Jesse means "God exists"
Joshua means "God saves"
Jesus is the short form of Joshua and means "the Lord is Salvation"
Elli, which is a common name for men before and after Jesus, means "God"
These are a list of his qualities not his titles.
Quote:
Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" —which means, "God with us."
Immanuel in proper translation means "With us is God". This name is also common for men before and after Jesus. But they were not God.
Quote:
John 20:28
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."
John 20:30-31
If what Thomas said was a declaration why is the exclamation point used? He was astonished... and if this is said to Jesus why is the verse above written as it is rather than Jesus Christ is God?
Quote:
Colossians 2:9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
(research the word deity)
Jesus came from God (John 8:42). He is not God, he is the image of God. (2 Cor. 4:4, Col. 1:15). He said he was inferior to God (John 10:29, 14:28). He worshiped God and prayed to God (John 11:41,42 John 17:1-26)
Jesus is the messenger of God, Servant of God, he pleaded with God to give him strength! All these things refute that he IS God.
Quote:
Yes. And just like the Pharisee's, there are those who surround Jesus today, looking for ways to disprove him.
"Jews do not believe that the messiah will be divine. A fundamental difference between Judaism and Christianity is the Jewish conviction that God is so essentially different from and beyond humanity that he could never become a human." The Jewish Messiah - ReligionFacts
Again, Jesus while praying to God says: John 17: 10-11 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.
Then you logically must say that if Jesus is one with God and therefore is God then Jesus also wanted his disciples to be one with God and therefore his disciples are God.
You can pick out as many verses as you want from both OT and NT, but even the Jews didn't expect the Messiah to be God and they are the most familiar with the OT so I would say they should know.
My husband is called Jonathan, which means "gift of God"
Israel means "Challenge God", "he struggles with God", or "fight with God". It also means "Defeat God" (jacobs name changes to Israel after he defeats God)
Ezekiel means "Strong God". It also means "Yahweh is Strong God".
Abram means "High Father"
Gabriel means "Hero of God"
Isaiah means "Salvation by God"
Jesse means "God exists"
Joshua means "God saves"
Jesus is the short form of Joshua and means "the Lord is Salvation"
Elli, which is a common name for men before and after Jesus, means "God"
These are a list of his qualities not his titles.
Immanuel in proper translation means "With us is God". This name is also common for men before and after Jesus. But they were not God.
"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."
John 20:30-31
If what Thomas said was a declaration why is the exclamation point used? He was astonished... and if this is said to Jesus why is the verse above written as it is rather than Jesus Christ is God?
Jesus came from God (John 8:42). He is not God, he is the image of God. (2 Cor. 4:4, Col. 1:15). He said he was inferior to God (John 10:29, 14:28). He worshiped God and prayed to God (John 11:41,42 John 17:1-26)
Jesus is the messenger of God, Servant of God, he pleaded with God to give him strength! All these things refute that he IS God.
"Jews do not believe that the messiah will be divine. A fundamental difference between Judaism and Christianity is the Jewish conviction that God is so essentially different from and beyond humanity that he could never become a human." The Jewish Messiah - ReligionFacts
Again, Jesus while praying to God says: John 17: 10-11 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.
Then you logically must say that if Jesus is one with God and therefore is God then Jesus also wanted his disciples to be one with God and therefore his disciples are God.
You can pick out as many verses as you want from both OT and NT, but even the Jews didn't expect the Messiah to be God and they are the most familiar with the OT so I would say they should know.
How nice....
but I haven't read your logical dismissal of Jesus' baptism.....yet
Jesus is God manifested in the flesh.
He said 'I and the Father are one.'
AMEN!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn71
I would rather just stick to scripture.
Me too and Scriptures teaches that Jesus is God
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
Yes they do. Isaiah 9:6
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" —which means, "God with us."
John 20:28
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
The Father spoke, the Son (Jesus) was in the water, the Holy Spirit decended. That is the Godhead.
Colossians 2:9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
(research the word deity)
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