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I can see arguments on both sides make some points. I believe aionios life means life pertaining to the eons. Yes eonian life could "end" without harming our true eternal life. That is one way to interpret it.
The other way is as trett and phazelwood do, that is it "continuing on". I also don't see aionios meaning "limited" or "eternal", but simply "pertaining to an eon or eons".
But the real thing we must consider is that scripture itself defines what aionios life is:
John 17:3 Now this is eternal [aionios] life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Aionios life is simply knowing God.
True believers enjoy this aionios life (knowing God), unbelievers do not (obviously because they don't know God). I believe that is the heart of the matter.
Now we can debate whether it means limited duration, or continuing, or perpetual, or whatever. But the fact is, believers who have aionios life will know God. That is the reward of believing.
John 3:16 For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal (aionios) life.
God gave His son so that we could know Him! Its about a relationship. Unbelievers don't have it, so they will perish. (Of course they will be restored later and will then know God and gain that relationship). And then when God is all in all, all will know Him.
I think that is the important thing we should focus on in understanding aionios life. John 17:3 is key. JMHO.
Good post legoman!
Most URs differ from each other to some extent (some more, some less) about why they believe the Bible teaches universal salvation.
For me the important thing is that they all do believe the Bible teaches it.
On the level where it matters most they all believe in an infinitely different God from the one that eternal tormentors, or even annihilationists claim that they love.
Personally, I was never able to love an ET god.
It was my inability to love an ET god that caused my twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78. I'm 70 years old now.
I suppose I could, if I could find no other alternative, reluctantly, "like" (but not love) an annihilationist god.
But I would rather live out my life as an agnostic hoping for the best after I die, than profess to pledge my so-called "loving" allegiance to an eternal torment god.
But when I gradually learned about God's plan for the ages of time, and that there is evidence that the Bible teaches that sooner or later God will save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved (including their stubborn will) because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, I then yeilded my heart and soul to Him in loving worship and complete abandonment. SEE THIS GOD'S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME LINK by J. Preston Eby The Savior of the World series by J
Last edited by rodgertutt; 09-30-2009 at 06:39 PM..
Reason: spacing
I have no problem with that. Eternal can only be applied to God as that is the only things humans can relate eternal to. But when I say I am eternally grateful, it really doesn't mean eternal, just a figure of speech.
Were debating the meaning of aionios not the meaning of eternal.
To begin with, you are understanding this parable completely in error. As far as i understand it. Perhaps i am wrong. But i understand this parable is about stewardship. The unjust steward was wiser than the children of light when it came to dealing with finances.
Jesus is saying to make friends with money, so that when you fall into need, they will receive you into habitations in the ages. For instance, i have friends who are well to do in their financial lives. That is what they do well. They are not spiritual people, but they are still my friends. And when i have need, because they are my friends they receive me and help me now here in this age.
"for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light. "
Or do you believe that Jesus is saying that children of this world are wiser in spiritual matters then the children of light?
We serve God as our master and because of that we are not serving mammon and cannot be as well to do in the world or in the generation in which we live.
If the we make friends of the mammon of unrighteousness, and they are the ones receiving us when we fail in to aionios skēnē (age abiding habitations) or conversely (as you believe) everlasting habitations, then are the children of this world the ones who give us everlasting life? Because the "they" in that verse who receive us when we fail is our friends of the mammon of unrighteousness.
As an example i give you the fact that when jesus failed(In this sense when he died, though i do not believe fail to be only in this sense), a rich man (Joseph of Arimathea to be exact) received his body and placed him in a rich mans tomb.
Sorry Iron, I'm not sure what your trying to get across. Are you disagreeing that aionios doesn't refer to an endpoint of limited duration?
At what point then does aionios God come to an end?:
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Come on now rodgertutt, it is ok to admit defeat. You not going to get blasted for it from me. I rejoice in your defeat only FOR you.
At what point then does aionios God come to an end?:
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Come on now rodgertutt, it is ok to admit defeat. You not going to get blasted for it from me. I rejoice in your defeat only FOR you.
Paul
Of course God is eternal, but that is not what the use of the word aionios is saying about Him. God is the God of the eons.
THE EONS HAVE A BEGINNING Literal Translation versus / King James Version
Heb.1:2 God made the eons / God made the worlds
I Cor. 2:7 before the eons / before the world
2Tim.1:9 before eonian times / before the world began
THE EONS END, INDIVIDUALLY AND COLLECTIVELY Heb. 9:26 the end of the eons / the end of the world
1 Cor. 10:11 the ends of the eons / the ends of the world
Matt. 24:3 the end of the eon / the end of the world
HOW MANY EONS ARE THERE? Col.1:26 hid from eons Past / hid from ages
Lu. 20:34 this eon Present / this world
Eph. 2:7 eons to come Future / ages to come
A minimum of five eons indicated
THE PURPOSE OF THE EONS
Eph.3:8-11 purpose of the eons / eternal purpose
Eph. 1:9-1l; PhiI.2:9-l1; Col.1:l5-21; I Cor. 15:20-28
Of course God is eternal, but that is not what the use of the word aionios is saying about Him. God is the God of the eons.
THE EONS HAVE A BEGINNING Literal Translation versus / King James Version
Heb.1:2 God made the eons / God made the worlds
I Cor. 2:7 before the eons / before the world
2Tim.1:9 before eonian times / before the world began
THE EONS END, INDIVIDUALLY AND COLLECTIVELY Heb. 9:26 the end of the eons / the end of the world
1 Cor. 10:11 the ends of the eons / the ends of the world
Matt. 24:3 the end of the eon / the end of the world
HOW MANY EONS ARE THERE? Col.1:26 hid from eons Past / hid from ages
Lu. 20:34 this eon Present / this world
Eph. 2:7 eons to come Future / ages to come
A minimum of five eons indicated
THE PURPOSE OF THE EONS
Eph.3:8-11 purpose of the eons / eternal purpose
Eph. 1:9-1l; PhiI.2:9-l1; Col.1:l5-21; I Cor. 15:20-28
You in denial. Again, the word aionios is an ADJECTIVE. It is describing God. Which one of us is stating that AIONIOS is describing a being that exist in limited fashion - Hint - it is YOU!
You in denial. Again, the word aionios is an ADJECTIVE. It is describing God. Which one of us is stating that AIONIOS is describing a being that exist in limited fashion - Hint - it is YOU!
Paul
There is a Greek word that Young translates eternal and that is "aidios" as in Romans 1:20, “eternal power and Godhead.” It can mean eternal unless it is limited by a qualifying phrase.
See Young’s literal translation of the Bible.
It compares with the Hebrew word qedem in Deut. 33:27 which should read
“The eternal (qedem) God is my refuge, and underneath are the age-during (olam) arms. (see Young's literal translation)
The Hebrew word olam compares with the Greek word aionios. Both of them refer to a limited period of time.
The word aidios (not aionios) was in universal use among the Greek Jews of our Savior's day, to convey the idea of eternal duration, and was used by them to teach endless punishment. Here is the proof Chapter 3 - Origin of Endless Punishment
Jesus never allowed himself to use it in connection with punishment, nor did any of his disciples but one, and he but once, and then carefully and expressly limited its meaning. Can demonstration go further than this to show that Jesus carefully avoided the phraseology by which his contemporaries described the doctrine of endless punishment? He never adopted the language of his day on this subject. Their language was aidios timoria, endless torment. His language was aionion kolasin, age-lasting correction. They described unending ruin, He, discipline, resulting in reformation.
If Jesus had wanted to convey the idea of “eternal” He would have used aidios, which was understood to mean eternal by Jesus' contemporaries. AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS
There is a Greek word that Young translates eternal and that is "aidios" as in Romans 1:20, “eternal power and Godhead.” It can mean eternal unless it is limited by a qualifying phrase.
See Young’s literal translation of the Bible.
It compares with the Hebrew word qedem in Deut. 33:27 which should read
“The eternal (qedem) God is my refuge, and underneath are the age-during (olam) arms. (see Young's literal translation)
The Hebrew word olam compares with the Greek word aionios. Both of them refer to a limited period of time.
The word aidios (not aionios) was in universal use among the Greek Jews of our Savior's day, to convey the idea of eternal duration, and was used by them to teach endless punishment. Here is the proof Chapter 3 - Origin of Endless Punishment
Jesus never allowed himself to use it in connection with punishment, nor did any of his disciples but one, and he but once, and then carefully and expressly limited its meaning. Can demonstration go further than this to show that Jesus carefully avoided the phraseology by which his contemporaries described the doctrine of endless punishment? He never adopted the language of his day on this subject. Their language was aidios timoria, endless torment. His language was aionion kolasin, age-lasting correction. They described unending ruin, He, discipline, resulting in reformation.
If Jesus had wanted to convey the idea of “eternal” He would have used aidios, which was understood to mean eternal by Jesus' contemporaries. AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS
Are you just going to keep referring to Tentmaker? Why don't you read what I post which is completely destroying your arguments? Again, how is God limited? Remember there is a verse that says the AIONIOS God. So why don't you explain how that is?
I'm very glad God has seperated me from this lie of the limited God.
Are you just going to keep referring to Tentmaker? Why don't you read what I post which is completely destroying your arguments? Again, how is God limited? Remember there is a verse that says the AIONIOS God. So why don't you explain how that is?
I'm very glad God has seperated me from this lie of the limited God.
Paul
aionios as a limited period of time in no way limits God. see post #326
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The eonian god
