So, am I or am I not a Christian? (Revelation, dogma, scriptures)

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by ChristyGrl

I'm not condemning anyone. I know what I believe and why I believe it and can back it up scripturally and historically without all the wild speculation. What you or anyone else believes doesn't affect my walk with God so it's not really an issue with me. If someone wants to know what I believe, I will share what I know with them but I don't shove it down their throats as the "One and Only Truth". I just see a lot of nastiness and hatefulness on this forum all in the name of Christianity... and it's really sickening. I can't imagine what unbelievers think when they see it all.

Sorry "rebuking" then, better? You know what you believe and can back it up? No you can't. You have no scripture where it says, judging is wrong-judging someone's salvation is wrong. Jesus Himself judged many times. Now I agree there are people who take it too far but those are spiritually immature Christians who are still trying to get a grip as you and I are still doing. "Shove it down their throats"? how with a gun pointed to their heads or knife to their throat? Sorry Christy but you sound a lil hypocritical when you describe your way of giving truth as "sharing" and someone else's way of giving truth as "shoving" We all have different beliefs whether it is religious, political, sports etc....I agree there should not be nastiness and hatefulness but again that is spiritual immaturity not to mention this room is not of one accord, we don't edify each other because our gospels are way different than other. We are not brothers and sisters in Christ. It's that simple.

[mb64282]

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist

Is truth concealed out of love or pride?

say I have something wonderful, I mean it is freaking great, and there is no way you will ever get it or experience it on earth, if I don't tell you, it isn't because I don't love you, if it could change the way you see things for the worse, make you sad jealous etc...it's because it would be selfish and boastful to tell you and there is no cause for that. What would be the point?

[alanMolstad]

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist

We are not brothers and sisters. It's that simple.

Who is my brother?
Who is my sister?

Is my brother someone with whom I never disagree?
is my sister always on my side on every issue?

No?

I believe that the thing that make a person my brother and my sister is the love we share, our family connection.
The fact is, in my life I do tend to disagree with they who call themselves my brother and sister.
But even in the deepest disagreements, we are still always and forever family.

Who made me your brother, why are you my sister?
If I only look at you, I dont have any idea why I would call you my brother and my sister.
But if I look up to my Father that we share, I get the connection.



Thus, I know, I know it sometimes gets hard to not react in anger with someone on this forum, but you have to always remember to offer the other person your hand in friendship .

perhaps the other person will never call you their brother, but you still can call them yours.

[HotinAZ]

Originally Posted by Morgansmom00

First of all, I believe that Jesus Christ existed, was the son of God and died on the cross to save man from his sins.

You answered your own question, then. We cannot answer this for you, as it is only the Father's Job to judge the hearts of man.

However, I recently got into a discussion with someone with whom I disagreed with on whether or not a person with no knowledge of the Bible or Christ could achieve salvation. The scenario was, "could a person who lived on a remote island somewhere, who lived a good, honest life (just as instructed in the words of the Bible), but who had no access to the Word of God still go to heaven?"

Actually, this is found in Romans 2:14-16
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

I believe that the Bible serves as instructions on how we should live our lives according to the Holy Spirit, but I don't think God is so selective that He'd exclude those who just didn't know, but lived the life He intended.

Personally, I agree.

I also believe that man is falliable and since the actual Bible has suffered through so many translations and interpretations at the hands of man, I find it difficult to take literal translations.

In some ways, I agree with this also. The Bible was written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit. So, no matter the interpretation, or translation, the Spirit can and will lead you to the Truth if you are seeking it. After all, that is the purpose of the "Comforter".

Before you get upset with me, please note again the intro at the top of the page.

Anyone who would get upset at this, needs to go look into their own mirror first.

Anyway, so in the course of this discussion with what turned out to be with a rather fanatical person who did not share my openmindedness, my salvation was questioned and I was called a heretic b/c my "degree in philosphy and religion taught me to defend man's continual discredit of the Bible".

You will see alot of this with fanaticals. It is not that their hearts are not right with God, but rather they are on a different journey with God. How can a person who reads the Bible themselves, not question some things they read about? A simple intellect will see this, and question it. But, at the same time, we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater either. Let the Spirit guide you.

So, what is it? Does it not matter that I believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit?

Yes it does. That is the starting point, but not the ending. If God has greater things for you to do, let Him lead you there. Sometimes you will be taken down roads that seem right, but really are not. After you come out of them, you will be alot stronger in spirit for doing so.

Do I have to believe a literal interpretation of a book that was translated and influenced by the monarchy commissioning the translation and interpreted by different denominations in order to reach salvation? If so, then which version is the right version?

See, you are looking at the Bible in the wrong light, if I may be so bold to say so. Look at it like this. We have the different versions, to reach different people, for different seasons. Some people are growing more mature, and some are infants. Some need milk, and some need meat. Let the Spirit do the guiding, and you will not go wrong.

The person who accused me of being a heretic is supposed to be a Christian.

I have called people heretics before. I admit this. But I use this only when their belief has settled so far down in their mind, that no other light an enter. In other words, they are closed off to the teachings of the Spirit, and it is evident by their doctrines. I know no person, today, who has come into the full knowledge of God. If so, we would see greater things than even Jesus did.

She certainly has not convinced me of wanting to break bread with her by casting judgment on me.

Well, I would look at this like a test. Not wanting to break bread is the refusal to share Christ. Keep mining the Word seeking the Spiritual Nuggets. As you find them, share them. Eventually, your friend will see the passion you have for God and His Son, and want to partake it with you. If not, then what have you lost? I mean, really? Perhaps nothing, except a burning desire to draw closer to your Savior and King. Can't go wrong there now, can we?

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by alanMolstad

Who is my brother?
Who is my sister?

Is my brother someone with whom I never disagree?
is my sister always on my side on every issue?

No?

I believe that the thing that make a person my brother and my sister is the love we share, our family connection.
The fact is, in my life I do tend to disagree with they who call themselves my brother and sister.
But even in the deepest disagreements, we are still always and forever family.

Who made me your brother, why are you my sister?
If I only look at you, I dont have any idea why I would call you my brother and my sister.
But if I look up to my Father that we share, I get the connection.



Thus, I know, I know it sometimes gets hard to not react in anger with someone on this forum, but you have to always remember to offer the other person your hand in friendship .

perhaps the other person will never call you their brother, but you still can call them yours.

Amen and pass the Cheetos to that brother!!

[mb64282]

I was looking for an official definition of heretic and the synonym protestant came up lol, personally, we can all sit there and call people heretics because we all have a Church within us with beliefs and our physical Churches can go against them and who on earth hasn't gone against there own beliefs at some point? I'd say during everyone's lives we've all acted like heretics before

[Morgansmom00]

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

What you proclaim is YOUR truth. I encourage people to find the truth for themselves by going to God in prayer. Not by parroting the mantra of a denomination.


And you use a religious dogma to interpret scripture and what a Christian is, when even Jesus lost his temper with the religious dogma and hierarchy and their corruption.


Your truth. Not mine or anyone elses.........

And it was the mantra of a denomination that insulted me and started this thread. I totally agree that some ppl put way too much emphasis on the word and not the intent. These same ppl, when challenged spout of indignities b/c they feel their beliefs are threatened. Thank you Goodpasture you've made me feel better.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

Aren't you at least a little happy to have the "anionted one"..the "savior" in your neck of the woods today? I know I am

So are you saying that the difference between a follower of Jesus and a Christian is that a Christian knows (instead of believes) that he is saved no matter what?
I guess this perfectly explains the Inquisition's behaviour, because they were torturing people for the Lord, right?
My point is this: how can you even follow the law if you do not even understand the spirit of the law?
Jesus himself rebelled against the church doctrine of his time, but then according to your belief Jesus is God, therefore everything he does cannot be wrong, right?
Even when Jesus contracted the official church doctrine (of that time).
You have absolutely no problem with the fact that God contradicts himself here (since you also believe that Jesus = God)
Jesus himself posed the question what has more importance, following the letter of the law or helping people during the Sabbath (which meant disobeying the letter of the law).
When it comes to understanding the law and obeying the law, the easiest thing is to blindly obey, which btw perfectly explains why the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
But to answer your question, no I don't care at all.
It is totally irrelevant to me who Jesus' father is or whether Jesus is God himself or not, I only know that I agree with his philosophy.
I simply don't care about Jesus' pedigree or whether my God is bigger than yours.
Nor am I concerned about my own salvation.
The reason why I'm not at all concerned with my (eternal) afterlife is because I simply don’t believe that there is 1.
I’m only concerned with the here and now.


Originally Posted by ChristyGrl

First thing...there is no such place as "Hell" the way it is taught in evangelical christianity today. Second...God has a plan for those who have never heard of His Son...and don't you believe otherwise because that would be a lie.
The bible is very clear that we are judged by the works of our lives...if they lived like a saint they would be judged as a saint.

Don't worry I'm not at all concerned with the beginning or the end, I'm only concerned with doing the right thing; am I actually helping others (or just myself)?
I'm not in the habit of dividing people in sinners () and Christians, which would be a gross simplification of Jesus' philosophy.


Originally Posted by alanMolstad

This news is that you do not have to "merit" your salvation.
This good news is that we are not left to do some "Works" to earn our salvation.

The salvation I have is a gift from god, By His Grace, though my faith.

Aren't you contradicting yourself here?
How can you have salvation without having (the right) faith?
According to your words you have to have (the right) faith in order to be saved, right?
Doesn't that then mean that (the right) religion is required in order to be saved?

trickyD...

The one thing we in the christian church want to do is to reach out to the sinner.

Funny (funny ironic), the reason why Christianity has so many different denominations is because at 1 time or another 1 denomination called the other a sinner (or a work of Satan) for not interpreting the Bible in the exact same way they do.
This sparked the chain reaction that caused the many different Christians to focus on the differences they have instead of what they have in common.

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by ChristyGrl

I, like you, have studied extensively and know the corruption in the present translations of our bibles. You don't have to have a theological degree to figure out what God's word says. I don't believe for one minute that God would turn away anyone who has not been exposed to His word and His son Jesus...and those that believe that just don't really know God.

This is exactly what the ruler of this world, Satan, wants a person to think. For these thoughts reveal a rejection of Christ who came into the world to pay the penalty for sin and open the door to salvation. This thinking rejects God's revealed and clearly stated word that you must believe in Christ in order to be saved. Rejection of Christ as Savior means rejection of the one way that God could extend His offer of salvation to the world without compromising His Holiness.

God's righteousness demands that the penalty for sin be paid for. Christ paid that penalty. And in doing so He purchased our salvation. But God requires a volitional issue. We must make a free will decision to accept Christ as our Savior or to reject Him.

The word of God makes it clear in passage after passage that a person must believe in Christ for salvation.

John 3:16 ''For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17) ''For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him, 18) ''He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already; because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.''

For anyone to imply that God will compromise His character, for anyone to say that God does not mean what He states in His revealed word that you must come to Him through Christ, shows that person to be an enemy of the Cross of Christ and the truth is not in them. The devil has deceived many and has thus brought them over onto his side in his opposition to God.

If you recognize the Bible to be the word of God, then you have no excuse for doubting what it says concerning salvation.

There is no such thing as a person who has never heard the Gospel if that person expresses a desire to know God. If, once a person has conceived of the existance of a deity, that person desires to learn about that deity, then God will get the Gospel to that person so that he can make a decision regarding Christ. It makes no difference where on earth that person may be. God will cause circumstances to come about for the benefit of that person in order that he may make a decision concerning Christ. If that person upon reaching ''God consciousness'' has no desire to know God, then God has no responsibility to get the Gospel to that person.

God has preserved His written word down through the generations. Though there are purposely altered translations of the Bible being marketed, the fact is that we have many good translations available. The New American Standard is a pretty good translation. And yes, even the King James, though it has its problems, is still a good translation.

Two ancient manuscripts available to us today are the Codex Sinaiticus and the Codex Alexandrinus.

The Dead Sea Scrolls include Biblical manuscripts antedating the oldest known Old Testament manuscripts by one thousand years.

God has provided for the preservation and the recovery of His written message, the canon of Scripture.

[justme58]

waste of time nevermind