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You cannot know sin if not for the law knowing you broke God's Law and He is angry but as you come to Him broken, contrite in spirit on bended knee knowing you are a sinner then and only then can the good news be appreciated, then and only then can the good news be heard, then and only then can the good news be received.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
I thought like you as well.
No you didn't.
June doubts that very, very, seriously.
-She doesn't mean it in an insulting or rude way, she is simply saying that -in all likelihood- you and I would not have necessarily shared similiar thoughts as regards certain things. Before, or after.
June happened upon Romans 8 early this morning. She didn't exactly get the "then and only then" aspect of what you wrote, above. Not everyone needs to have the exact, same experiences.
-She doesn't mean it in an insulting or rude way, she is simply saying that -in all likelihood- you and I would not have necessarily shared similiar thoughts as regards certain things. Before, or after.
June happened upon Romans 8 early this morning. She didn't exactly get the "then and only then" aspect of what you wrote, above. Not everyone needs to have the exact, same experiences.
Take more gentle open minded care.
I agree not everyone can have the same experience but there is one way to approach Him. We all have different backgrounds, personalities etc.... but Jesus Himself said, how one gets into heaven when the disciples were arguing among themselves who is better.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 10-14-2009 at 10:14 AM..
June happened upon Romans 8 early this morning. She didn't exactly get the "then and only then" aspect of what you wrote, above. Not everyone needs to have the exact, same experiences.
Of course I agree with Romans 8....The law's role is not for Christians, the law is for unrepentant sinners to drive them to the foot of the cross so that they can repent and be forgiven and be free from condemnation of sin and death which only Christ Jesus can give
if not for the law what would an unrepentant sinner repent for? It makes no sense
I agree not everyone can have the same experience but there is one way to approach Him. We all have different backgrounds, personalities etc.... but Jesus Himself said, how one gets into heaven when the disciples were arguing among themselves who is better.
Fundy you are going around in circles now , what does this have to do with the one way we are supposed to respond to the gospel ?.
The truth is we approach at His bidding , for He is calling us and drawing us to Himself.
This is simply hilarious ... Only a brainwashed person could contradict his/herself so outright and think that it is not a contradiction. The original topic is so in your face rediculous i cant believe a rational person would actually say it, or even think it for that matter ...
Telling people that they are going to be tortured for ever, experiencing endless agony, is not spreading fear?
Telling people that God has already sent any person who was not a christian to hell to be tortured for ever in endless agonies is not spreading fear?
Using the same logic, telling people that everyone will be saved IS spreading fear ...
I mean come on people what on earth is wrong with you ... ? How can you sit there and tell a Christian man or woman (or a non-Christian man or woman for that matter) that if they do not believe the way you do they will be tortured endlessly and suffer terrible agonies for ever is NOT a fear tactic? Are you out of your mind?
Or talking about everlasting tortures of non-Christians on international radio or international television or writing a book about it that is sold internationally is not spreading fear? When these "Christian" beliefs of everlasting torture and death are heard in China or in India and an old Hindu woman who lost much of her family in a terrible accident like that tsunami(a terribly tragic situation to begin with) that killed so many people isn't giving her reason to be afraid?
You people are insane if you really believe what you are saying and there is nothing else to it.
Even annihilation is spreading fear of never being able to see a loved one again. Why would a Hindu want to convert to Christianity to live forever if they find out they will never see any of their friends or family again, much worse all their friends and family are going to be endlessly tortured for ever?
However annihilation is more of a fear thing for Christians than for people who don't believe in God, they readily accept that when they die its all over and suffer torments now in mourning their loved ones who die. But for a Christian to believe it and have loved ones who are not Christian it most certainly causes them torment. Speaking from first hand experience here ...
I feel like i am watching a horror spoof wherein the monster who is going around torturing and murdering everyone doesn't realize he is scaring them or causing them torment. Wherein the monster thinks he is actually helping people and treating them with love ...
All i can say to this in the end is ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 10-14-2009 at 10:35 AM..
Sorry if I am confusing, eating lunch...taste so good! probably not concentrating.
See if this makes sense This is the Law
No law, just gospel
The judge says, "you have a fine of $5,000 and you must pay it or you will go to jail" no reason why the fine? who saw you, what day was it, just that you have a fine but then someone stepped in and paid it for you. Oh thanks...whatever-I wasn't guilty to begin with
Law and gospel
The Judge says, "on July 4, 2000 at 5:00 pm you were clocked going 100 mphs in a 25 mph school zone and you almost ran down a senior citizen, your fine is $5,000 dollars". You know you are guilty, ashamed and scared.
Good news
The Judge later says, to you that "even though you broke the law and you deserve the fine or the penalty someone has stepped in to take and paid the fine for you." Well that person was Jesus. Jesus Christ took your place on the cross, the just Judge God had laws and they were broken and now God demands justice for breaking those laws because He is a just judge and sin must be punished. Jesus was the substitution, rather than God pouring His punishment on us, he took it out on Jesus, the bible says, it pleased God to bruise His Son on the cross. God was pleased because He he could redirect His anger towards off and on to Jesus.
When God sees us, He sees Jesus and when God sees Jesus He sees us.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 10-14-2009 at 10:40 AM..
It is not spreading fear ONLY because it is so ludicrous no one with a rational concept of God's love (or justice) would actually believe it. But it is a complete "turn off" to any witness about God because it undermines the credibility of the witness.
Sorry if I am confusing, eating lunch...taste so good! probably not concentrating.
See if this makes sense This is the Law
No law, just gospel
The judge says you have a fine of $5,000 and you must pay it or you will go to jail no reason why the fine? who saw you, what day was it, just that you have a fine but then someone stepped in and paid it for you. Oh thanks...whatever.
Law and gospel
The Judge says, on July 4, 2000 at 5:00 pm you were clocked going 100 mphs in a 25 mph school zone and you almost ran down a senior citizen, your fine is $5,000 dollars
Good news
The Judge later says to you that even though you broke the law and you deserve the fine or the penalty someone has stepped in to take and paid the fine for you. Well that person was Jesus. Jesus Christ took your place on the cross, the just Judge God had laws and they were broken and now God demands justice for breaking those laws because He is a just judge and sin must be punished. Jesus was the substitution, rather than God pouring His punishment on us, he took it out on Jesus, the bible says, it pleased God to bruise His Son on the cross. God was pleased because He he could redirect His anger towards off and on to Jesus.
When God sees us, He sees Jesus and when God sees Jesus He sees us.
Nothing legalistic about this rationale. Any God that is capable of anger and would be pleased by what Jesus went through is no God of mine, Fundy. You can keep your version.
This is simply hilarious ... Only a brainwashed person could contradict his/herself so outright and think that it is not a contradiction. The original topic is so in your face rediculous i cant believe a rational person would actually say it, or even think it for that matter ...
Telling people that they are going to be tortured for ever, experiencing endless agony, is not spreading fear?
Telling people that God has already sent any person who was not a christian to hell to be tortured for ever in endless agonies is not spreading fear?
Using the same logic, telling people that everyone will be saved IS spreading fear ...
I mean come on people what on earth is wrong with you ... ? How can you sit there and tell a Christian man or woman (or a non-Christian man or woman for that matter) that if they do not believe the way you do they will be tortured endlessly and suffer terrible agonies for ever is NOT a fear tactic? Are you out of your mind?
Or talking about everlasting tortures of non-Christians on international radio or international television or writing a book about it that is sold internationally is not spreading fear? When these"Christian" beliefs are heard in China or in India and an old Hindu woman who lost much of her family in a terrible accident like that tsunami(a terribly tragic situation to begin with) that killed so many people isn't giving her reason to be afraid?
You people are insane if you really believe what you are saying and their is nothing else to it.
Even annihilation is spreading fear of never being able to see a loved one again. Why would a Hindu want to convert to Christianity to live forever if they find out they will never see any of their friends or family again, much worse all their friends and family are going to be endlessly tortured for ever?
I feel like i am watching a horror spoof wherein the monster who is going around torturing and murdering everyone doesn't realize he is scaring them or causing them torment. Wherein the monster thinks he is actually helping people and treating them with love ...
All i can say to this in the end is ...
Iron,
You have to cover all the bases... what happens if torture is true and you don't believe it? Perhaps you will be tortured as well...
In order for fundamentalists to cover all the bases they have to believe in EVERYTHING even remotely stated in the bible!
Notice that in all the "have to believe" statements:
It is clearly stated that you must believe to be saved... believe in the trinity, hell, demons, Jesus as Christ, Jesus as God, that you are a horrible sinner... and the list goes on!
But it is very clear in that you have to believe.. on everything or, from the words of the late evangelist John Rice, "every man must learn the answer, or spend eternity lost, away from God, suffering the torments of the damned!" which he claims is short and simple... check out his article here: What Must I Do To Be Saved? -by Dr. John R. Rice
If you cover all the bases you can be assured your salvation... hopefully you don't miss anything or.. well that would be tragic.
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