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You still miss the point. The use of the word Basanizo(along with the symbolic meanings of fire and brimstone as purifying and transfomative agents) establishes a link between the fiery judgments of the lake of fire, and the fiery judgments once reserved only for Israel.
Malachi 3:2-4 (King James Version)
2But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
4Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
and ...
Zechariah 13:9 (King James Version)
9And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Fire is symbolic throughout the bible of refinement and purification. You don't want this to be true but it nevertheless is. Just because you want the judgments of Gods fire to be punitive instead of remedial and juest because you want it to last forever, doesn't change the fact that it is remedial and that it will not last forever. It only proves the violent hate you have in your heart for your enemies and those you believe to be unbelievers.
Your continued denial of the truth is your problem, and you will just have to find out the hard way. To recognize the truth of eternal condemnation is not hatred. But to those who reject the truth, it is common to make that accusation. End of comments.
Your continued denial of the truth is your problem, and you will just have to find out the hard way. To recognize the truth of eternal condemnation is not hatred. But to those who reject the truth, it is common to make that accusation. End of comments.
One of us will certainly "find out the hard way" ...
Condemning other people to eternal torture, or considering it to be a good thing(i.e desiring it to be true), cant be considered anything other than violence and hatred, at least in the minds of all but a psychopath. Call it whatever you will to try and justify it, but a rose by any other name ...
He is a loving God, and he does not torture anyone..it is the decision that we make to reject him..Luke 16:19-23 says There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury everyday 20 at his gate was laid a beggar name Lazarus covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man table...the time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham..then the rich man died and he was buried in hell where he was tormented....24v So he called to him father Abraham have pity on me....behind bad choices there are consequences we pay...
How can one say that God will torture anyone when his true nature manifests as love....
I see many people say that justice requires that some go to hell eternally but I cannot reconcile that with the God that is the savior and redeemer?
God is all in all....Matt 25:45 He will reply I tell you the truth whatever u did not do for the least of these, you did not do for me 46v then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life...it is the free will choice that we chose..
If He is to be all in all, how do you "reconcile" that to eternal damnation?[/quote]
God is all in all....Matt 25:45 He will reply I tell you the truth whatever u did not do for the least of these, you did not do for me 46v then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life...it is the free will choice that we chose..
If He is to be all in all, how do you "reconcile" that to eternal damnation?
Simple, the Greek word behind "eternal" is "aionion" which is an adjective and which is telling us of that which pertains to the "aion" or "age."
Both the chastening and the life those nations get is aionion or eonian which is pertaining to the eon or age.
What I'm saying is that since the word 'hell' refers only to punishment, as opposed to Hades which before the time that Christ went to the Cross, was the abode of both believers-in Paradise, and unbelivers-in Torments, that the word 'hell' better describes the lake of fire which is strictly a place of suffering.
Gehenna was a place where fire was perpetually burning. Thus, the relationship with the lake of fire. The writers of the Bible, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, simply took the term and applied it to the lake of fire. Matthew 25:41 simply calls it 'the eternal fire.'
The lake of fire is not a place of suffering for any humans. For them it is death; unconscious death. The bible calls it "the second death." Believe thou the bible?
God is all in all....Matt 25:45 He will reply I tell you the truth whatever u did not do for the least of these, you did not do for me 46v then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life...it is the free will choice that we chose..
If He is to be all in all, how do you "reconcile" that to eternal damnation?
You cant ... That is the contradiction of the doctrine eternal damnation. the idea that God will reconcile all things to himself whether in heaven or in earth, and be all in all, while at the same time torturing the vast majority of his creation for ever at the same time. Unless he is torturing himself (at the same time) who is in all those who are tortured. There is far more scriptural evidence for universal reconciliation than there is for eternal torture, especially when you realize that the Greek words aion and its adjective forms aionion and aionios don't meant everlasting or for ever or eternal even though that is how they are translated into the Latin Vulgate and English translations of the bible.
Once you realize these words mean age and pertaining to the age or ages respectively, then all the sudden the doctrine of eternal torture looses all but the most loosely interpreted scriptural basis.
it should be translated ...
Matt 25:46
"then they will go away to eternal(Greek aionios = pertaining to the ages/age during) punishment (Greek Kolasis = literally - pruning or figuratively - correction), but the righteous to eternal(aionios = pertaining to the ages/age during) life"
Or ...
Matt 25:46
"then they will go away to age-during correction, but the righteous to age-during life"
And at the end of the ages ... after everyone who must endure age-during correction have been fully corrected, and every knee bows and every tongue confesses Christ is lord to the glory of the father, God will be all in all.
The lake of fire is not a place of suffering for any humans. For them it is death; unconscious death. The bible calls it "the second death." Believe thou the bible?
Rev. 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, [b]where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever.[/B]
The beast (antichrist) and the false prophet (probably the Roman Catholic Pope) will have already been in the lake of fire for one thousand years, being tormented, before Satan is even thrown in there to join them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius The lake of fire is not a place of suffering for any humans. For them it is death; unconscious death. The bible calls it "the second death." Believe thou the bible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Rev. 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, [b]where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever.[/B]
The beast (antichrist) and the false prophet (probably the Roman Catholic Pope) will have already been in the lake of fire for one thousand years, being tormented, before Satan is even thrown in there to join them.
Yes. I believe the Bible.
You believe your interpretation of the Bible.
For Satan and the supernatural beast and supernatural false prophet the lake of fire is mental torment. For all of humanity cast therein it is death . . . unconscious death.
The lake of fire does not begin until the ending of the 1000 year millennium (which has not begun yet). So how could anyone be in it at this point in time?
And at the end of the ages ... after everyone who must endure age-during correction have been fully corrected, and every knee bows and every tongue confesses Christ is lord to the glory of the father, God will be all in all.
What a horrible thought! To think God will be All in Hitler! Uggh! To think Hitler will click his heals, raise his hand and shout Zeek Heil! to Christ is a horrid thought. I mean, can you imagine Hitler being happy being saved?
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