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That's right legalist. Once someone believes in Christ for salvation, they are saved even if they turn around and reject Christ after having accepted Him as Savior. And it is amazing. This is something that people such as yourself will never understand.
That is a lie....if one rejects Christ....Christ will reject him......he will be on the GOAT side.
That's right legalist. Once someone believes in Christ for salvation, they are saved even if they turn around and reject Christ after having accepted Him as Savior. And it is amazing. This is something that people such as yourself will never understand.
Well, at least you are being consistent. The logical conclusion of Once Saved Always Saved is that nothing you could do could affect that salvation.
It is easy to see how it relates to the great lie of Satan who told Eve that even if she disobeyed God "Ye shall not surely die".
Every false religion and false Christian denomination has that lie at its source.
For example, those who teach re-incarnation are saying: "You will not die".
When one knows what to look for, this same scheme is easily seen in most denominations of the modern Christian church.
As in all successful lies, there is an element of truth. The essence of Christ's teaching was that there would be some who would not die.
The lie is to say that those who continue to disobey God will not die.
The Calvinist version of The Great Lie is based upon the concept that some are chosen by God to be saved and thus no matter what commandments they choose to break, they 'shall not surely die.".
The Lutheran twist is that Jesus has "paid it all" and by believing in that doctrine, no matter how many sins one commits, he "shall not surely die."
Roman Catholicism is more clever. They say that one must keep the commandments of God, but if you break them (they say) you may confess that sin to the priest and "ye shall not surely die".
In each of the examples above, the doctrine is designed to remove the fear of God from those who continue to disobey the commandments of God.
Mike isn't it true that that is why you choose to believe OSAS - you want to remove the fear of God when you commit sin?
Habakkuk 2: 2,4 Then the LORD replied:
"Write down the revelation
and make it plain on tablets
so that a herald may run with it.
"See, he is puffed up; his desires are not upright— but the righteous will live by his faith -
Paul quoted God, and Jesus is God
Romans 1:17
For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live byfaith."
1 John 1:9 is not a license to sin. As it says in Galatians 6:7 'Do not be deceived. God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.'
1 John 1:9, 'Rebound', is a license to grow up spiritually. Everyone sins. Everyone is tempted by the world, and the flesh. Not too many people are tempted directly by Satan himself as he can only be in one place at a time and has more important things to do. No Christian who desires to grow up spiritually is going to sin willy nilly all the livelong day. But every Christian regardless of level of spiritual growth is going to deliberately commit sins that he knows are sins, from time to time, because we all have sin natures and that's what we do. We might decide to gossip. Or we might decide to tell a little white lie for whatever reason. Or we might judge someone. Or we might give in to pride. Whatever it is, sooner or later, every Christian deliberately commits a sin that he knows is a sin. And when he does, that is what 1 John 1:9 is for.
Now, there are people who believe in Christ and then may turn around and reject Him. They are still saved, but they will act in accordance to the dictates of their own particular sin nature. Some may live in such a way that they sin till the cows come home. Some won't.
The issue is not that a believer won't knowingly commit sins from time to time. But rather, a believer who wants to obey God will not go around sinning all over the place. But he will sin. It is unavoidable. And that is why God has provided in grace, the prinicple of 1 John 1:9.
But let's say that a believer does have a habitual sin. One that he can't stop commiting. Let's say he is an alcoholic, or maybe he can't help but to keep from lusting after something. And yet, he wants to grow up spiritually. If he simply names the sin to God every time he commits it, and forgets it and moves on and continues to learn and apply the word of God, he will eventually overcome that sin and not commit it anymore.
And lastly, if someone does believe in Christ and then continues to sin willingly and names that sin to God everytime he commits it, and I mean this person loves to sin, has no interest in stopping his sin, he will be forgiven for the sin if and/or when he names it, but he won't make any spiritual progress. And indeed, he will continue to come under increasing amounts of divine discipline even to the point of being taken out of this life under maximum divine discipline if he doesn't change his ways. But he is still saved. The discipline is designed by God to get that believers attention and alert him to his need to turn away from his disobedience. If he won't turn away from that disobedience, than God may very well simply take him on home in a state of disgrace.
The fact of the matter is, is that most Christians don't even know to simply name their sin to God, and so after the very first sin that that believer commits after salvation, he gets out of fellowship and remains under the control of his sin nature for the rest of his life. He will have no spiritual growth but he is still saved and will simply be transferred from time into eternity as a spiritually immature believer.
Understand that salvation is simply a matter of making a decision to place your trust in Christ for salvation. It has nothing to do with whether or not you continue to sin. Your spiritual life does, but not your salvation. Unbelievers sin, and believers sin. When the believer sins, it is handled by God as a family matter. (Prov. 3:11-12; Heb. 12:5-13; Revelation 3:19-21).
And I'll say it again so no one misunderstands. Salvation by grace is not a license to sin, and the principle of 1 John 1:9 is not a license to sin. They are a license to grow up spiritually.
Throughout the 10 years that I have been in ministry I have noticed that many are not saved, they are merely self-righteous. They claim to believe they are forgiven, yet they continue to ask for forgiveness,making God a liar. Most have a zeal that is not based on knowledge which makes them no better than a mormon,muslim, or Jehovah's witness.
Why is it that when a person mentions grace, instantly we hear about "licenses to sin?" Someone quoted revelation 3:19-21, rightly divide the scripture. Take a word mentioned that has to do with salvation like "overcomes". Look at revelation 3:5"He that overcometh,the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot his name out of the book of life,but will confess his name before my Father and his angels. 1John5:5 who is he that overcometh the world,but he that believeth that Jesus is the Christ(anointed One,only one anointed some translations of the word)
Revelation 21:7&8 "He who overcometh will inherit all things; I will be his God and he shall be my son. But the fearful(first listed)and unbelieving,and the abominable,and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters and all liars will have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:which is the second death. The fearful are also those fake Christian churchgoers who instead of trusting in Jesus for forgiveness of sin and salvation they trust in the goodness of their own actions. In my studies, God has revealed that those who attempt to live right on their own, live even more sinful. Romans 5:1&2 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand and rejoice in the hope of the glory of God." If you do not believe in"justification by faith" you will not have access, and you will not stand.
The bible says that Jesus is the author and the finisher of our faith, not you. When we trust in Christ and his gospel as the only means of our salvation, we get saved. Faith in the niv means to be "sure and certain". This means we must completely trust in the sacrificial death of Christ on the cross for forgiveness, and his resurrection from the dead for salvation(see romans5:10) The grace of God teaches us to say "no" to ungodliness. For example, let's say you have a truly born-again Christian. He becomes selfish with himself and is tempted by satan to say fornicate. this guy has sex with someone. He knows its wrong because the bible says in Ezekiel36 that God wrote his laws on his new heart. But when describing the covenant that God has with him God said, "his sins and lawless acts I will remember nomore." (Hebrews10:17) "All manner of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven"(matthew12:31) "if any man sin we have an advocate"1john2:1 with the father Jesus Christ the righteous one."
This hypocritical convert has the righteousness of God on the inside although he committed an obvious sin. He hates in his heart and mind the very act he committed and will propbably condemn someone else for doing the same thing. When he sees that God will love him the same, that grace will eventually, if he is saved, lead him to do as God desires. And I say to you, you know deep down inside whether or not you have been saved. Even though our sin is forgiven as believers, we must be the 'salt of the earth". We are to be living sacrifices, holy and acceptable unto our God. God hates sin,that is why he punished his own son to account for it. Noone will be justified before God by his own good works read your bibles, the just shall live by his faith. Trying to be victorious on your own is no different from the attitude of Cain. It is when God's character grows on and in us that we live righteously. In the Hebrew to"bear" the fruit of the Sprit's in context proper meaning f the word is "to tolerate" or"to put up with" . Any questions? write to Prophet Howard Po box 90633 Milwaukee, Wi 53209 I will write you back. also watch my sermons on youtube Prophet D.Howard Jr May God give you his revelation.
The mistake being made [so far as I can see] is not understanding that bible faith is never passive but always active, faith works, Jesus taught that, Paul taught it and so did James and John. Simply believing will not save anybody, Faith that apprehends and recieves the promise is what saves.
But this faith comes from God and is the gift of God worked into the heart by grace and God imparts it to whomsoever He will.
I got the message that Jesus bore my sins in His own body on the cross, now the Holy Ghost must work in my heart the grace to enable me to surrender my sins up to Him.
Next I hear that He is ready to impart new spiritual life to my soul, I am utterly incapable of coming alive of myself, the Holy Ghost must work the desire and need in me, this will issue in fervent desire Himward to grant my desire, which He certainly will.
Throughout the 10 years that I have been in ministry I have noticed that many are not saved, they are merely self-righteous. They claim to believe they are forgiven, yet they continue to ask for forgiveness,making God a liar. Most have a zeal that is not based on knowledge which makes them no better than a mormon, muslim, or Jehovah's witness...
Ok, you pretend to be a true prophet of God who speaks for Him but you wrote what appears to be an uncalled for, arrogant, and ignorant shot at members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I'll call you on it, please provide evidence to support your statement about Mormons, or at least reply to the effect that it is just your personal opinion, thanks. (I was responding to "ministers" in post 64, maybe it was Mike who made that comment?)
That is a lie....if one rejects Christ....Christ will reject him......he will be on the GOAT side.
To the contrary.
2 Timothy 2:11 It is a trustworthy statement:
For if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him; 12) If we endure, we shall also reign with Him (eternal rewards); If we deny Him, He will deny us; (eternal rewards, decorations, priviledges) 13) If we are faithless, He remains faithful; for He cannot deny Himself. (Eternal security)
Once a person has believed in Christ for salvation, he cannot lose his salvation for any reason whatsoever. That is the grace of God.
The mistake being made [so far as I can see] is not understanding that bible faith is never passive but always active, faith works, Jesus taught that, Paul taught it and so did James and John. Simply believing will not save anybody, Faith that apprehends and recieves the promise is what saves.
But this faith comes from God and is the gift of God worked into the heart by grace and God imparts it to whomsoever He will.
I got the message that Jesus bore my sins in His own body on the cross, now the Holy Ghost must work in my heart the grace to enable me to surrender my sins up to Him.
Next I hear that He is ready to impart new spiritual life to my soul, I am utterly incapable of coming alive of myself, the Holy Ghost must work the desire and need in me, this will issue in fervent desire Himward to grant my desire, which He certainly will.
From beginning to end it is God.
Faith means trusting in Christ for salvation. You understand the issue involved in salvation by having heard the Gospel. You understand that there is nothing you can do to earn your salvation, and that you must depend on Christ entirely for salvation. You therefore accept the offer of salvation by one non meritorious act of faith. As a result, you are saved. One simple act of believing in Christ secures your salvation forever. This is the grace of God.
Throughout the 10 years that I have been in ministry I have noticed that many are not saved, they are merely self-righteous. They claim to believe they are forgiven, yet they continue to ask for forgiveness,making God a liar. Most have a zeal that is not based on knowledge which makes them no better than a mormon,muslim, or Jehovah's witness.
Why is it that when a person mentions grace, instantly we hear about "licenses to sin?" Someone quoted revelation 3:19-21, rightly divide the scripture. Take a word mentioned that has to do with salvation like "overcomes". Look at revelation 3:5"He that overcometh,the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot his name out of the book of life,but will confess his name before my Father and his angels. 1John5:5 who is he that overcometh the world,but he that believeth that Jesus is the Christ(anointed One,only one anointed some translations of the word)
Revelation 21:7&8 "He who overcometh will inherit all things; I will be his God and he shall be my son. But the fearful(first listed)and unbelieving,and the abominable,and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters and all liars will have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:which is the second death. The fearful are also those fake Christian churchgoers who instead of trusting in Jesus for forgiveness of sin and salvation they trust in the goodness of their own actions. In my studies, God has revealed that those who attempt to live right on their own, live even more sinful. Romans 5:1&2 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand and rejoice in the hope of the glory of God." If you do not believe in"justification by faith" you will not have access, and you will not stand.
The bible says that Jesus is the author and the finisher of our faith, not you. When we trust in Christ and his gospel as the only means of our salvation, we get saved. Faith in the niv means to be "sure and certain". This means we must completely trust in the sacrificial death of Christ on the cross for forgiveness, and his resurrection from the dead for salvation(see romans5:10) The grace of God teaches us to say "no" to ungodliness. For example, let's say you have a truly born-again Christian. He becomes selfish with himself and is tempted by satan to say fornicate. this guy has sex with someone. He knows its wrong because the bible says in Ezekiel36 that God wrote his laws on his new heart. But when describing the covenant that God has with him God said, "his sins and lawless acts I will remember nomore." (Hebrews10:17) "All manner of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven"(matthew12:31) "if any man sin we have an advocate"1john2:1 with the father Jesus Christ the righteous one."
This hypocritical convert has the righteousness of God on the inside although he committed an obvious sin. He hates in his heart and mind the very act he committed and will propbably condemn someone else for doing the same thing. When he sees that God will love him the same, that grace will eventually, if he is saved, lead him to do as God desires. And I say to you, you know deep down inside whether or not you have been saved. Even though our sin is forgiven as believers, we must be the 'salt of the earth". We are to be living sacrifices, holy and acceptable unto our God. God hates sin,that is why he punished his own son to account for it. Noone will be justified before God by his own good works read your bibles, the just shall live by his faith. Trying to be victorious on your own is no different from the attitude of Cain. It is when God's character grows on and in us that we live righteously. In the Hebrew to"bear" the fruit of the Sprit's in context proper meaning f the word is "to tolerate" or"to put up with" . Any questions? write to Prophet Howard Po box 90633 Milwaukee, Wi 53209 I will write you back. also watch my sermons on youtube Prophet D.Howard Jr May God give you his revelation.
'Prophet'? You seemed to be writing to me, but you quoted Mike.
Well, at least you are being consistent. The logical conclusion of Once Saved Always Saved is that nothing you could do could affect that salvation.
It is easy to see how it relates to the great lie of Satan who told Eve that even if she disobeyed God "Ye shall not surely die".
Every false religion and false Christian denomination has that lie at its source.
For example, those who teach re-incarnation are saying: "You will not die".
When one knows what to look for, this same scheme is easily seen in most denominations of the modern Christian church.
As in all successful lies, there is an element of truth. The essence of Christ's teaching was that there would be some who would not die.
The lie is to say that those who continue to disobey God will not die.
The Calvinist version of The Great Lie is based upon the concept that some are chosen by God to be saved and thus no matter what commandments they choose to break, they 'shall not surely die.".
The Lutheran twist is that Jesus has "paid it all" and by believing in that doctrine, no matter how many sins one commits, he "shall not surely die."
Roman Catholicism is more clever. They say that one must keep the commandments of God, but if you break them (they say) you may confess that sin to the priest and "ye shall not surely die".
In each of the examples above, the doctrine is designed to remove the fear of God from those who continue to disobey the commandments of God.
Mike isn't it true that that is why you choose to believe OSAS - you want to remove the fear of God when you commit sin?
HK
*
Paul teaches in regard to sin in the believer that if we will judge ourselves we will not need to be judged by God and the judgement was that "there are some among you sick and weakly and some even sleep [death]"
Physical death as the result of unrepented sin in the believer's life [among whatever other chastisement the Lord may afflict] is consistently the bible teaching. Loss of reward, even being saved as through fire but never loss of salvation. We are made one spirit with the Lord when we are born again, it is a work that cannot be undone.
The man who sinned at Corinth sinned grieviously, it was no light matter, even by modern standards what he was doing while still maintaining christian fellowship was heinious.
Paul never once brought his salvation into question.
The man was to be put out of the fellowship and handed over to satan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit might be saved. This is completely in line with all other scriptures including Hebs 6 &10.
There is reason enough in these fearful consequences to cause us to fear the Lord.
Surely the most grievious result of sin is we lose the blessing of the conscious presence of the Holy Spirit. We are out of fellowship with Him. This is what I fear most.
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