Salvation is Through Faith Alone In Christ Alone; Not by your Works (crucified, lordship)
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That's legalism of love.....I don't love others in order to gain God's favor or to be cleansed of sin. I love others because it is automatic and it pleases God. "Works" is very important for salvation..."faith without works is dead" but works is not a requirement of salvation but evidence that one is saved. I don't love to be saved I love because I am saved.
Mike, even Satan believes the words, and he knows they are true, yet he is not going to heaven.
To believe in Christ means that in understanding what Christ did on your behalf in order to make salvation possible for you, you then in wanting a relationship with God for eternity place your trust in Christ for salvation. Satan is not placing his trust in Christ. Satan opposes God in every way.
To believe, to have faith, means to trust in, to depend on what Christ did on the Cross in paying the penalty for sin. There is no merit in faith. The merit is in the object of your faith. The object of your faith in salvation is Jesus Christ.
God simply requires that we place our trust in the work of Christ on the Cross realizing that we can do nothing to earn our salvation.
That's legalism of love.....I don't love others in order to gain God's favor or to be cleansed of sin. I love others because it is automatic and it pleases God. "Works" is very important for salvation..."faith without works is dead" but works is not a requirement of salvation but evidence that one is saved. I don't love to be saved I love because I am saved.
Did Jesus tell us the bad fruit trees were saved??? I think NOT!
That's legalism of love.....I don't love others in order to gain God's favor or to be cleansed of sin. I love others because it is automatic and it pleases God. "Works" is very important for salvation..."faith without works is dead" but works is not a requirement of salvation but evidence that one is saved. I don't love to be saved I love because I am saved.
I disagree that love is "automatic" though of course if one has reached or almost reached perfection and through consistently making all the right choices become like God, then that person is surely filled with the pure love of Jesus Christ.
Just a suggestion: can we drop the words "legalist" and "legalism"? To me they are just copouts. Label someone a "legalist" or whatever and you think you've made a point and needn't develop that 'point' to where it becomes meaningful, even perhaps persuasive. It's kind of like calling names as in the old childhood saying: "Sticks and stones may break my bones but faces and names don't harm me."
If you think someone has presented a "legalist" point of view, then SHOW US why you think they have done that. I've seen a lot of instances in this thread where that word was aggressively thrust at someone as if it was a weapon when it validly belonged just as much to the thruster (though he or she may have been blind to that possibility...)
I think this should clear up any misunderstandings anyone could possibly have regarding the Faith Alone & OSAS false doctrine that is being purported on this thread.
BTW....I urge anyone who is confused about the words translated as iniquity, wickedness, lawlessness, etc. to do a word study on it....they all come from this main Gr word Anomia which is mistranlsated numerous times throughout the NT.....it actually means those who violate the law or do not practice the law.
I believe you don't fully understand what I am saying. In the grand scheme of things it is not that much different from you. Jesus was not suggesting that works are meritorious for salvation, but that true faith will not fail to produce the fruit of good works.
Did Jesus tell us the bad fruit trees were saved??? I think NOT!
Fruitless trees are thrown into the fire, and even those branches of the good trees which did not produce fruit are cut off and thrown into the fire.
John 15:6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
Remember that Jesus was talking to believers when he said that, not to unbelievers. He said he is the vine and we are the branches which are desiged to bear fruit, but if there is no fruit, you are cut off and thrown into the fire.
But what does it mean?
1. Professing Christians end up in the fire (lack of salvation, Christians in name only - there are millions of those)
2. Believing, but unfruitful believers end up in the fire aka hell
3. Believing, but unfruitful believers are punished by fire temporarily
Which is it? I wouldn't take too many chances.
Lesson to learn: Don't play with fire
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 01-12-2010 at 08:39 AM..
I believe you don't fully understand what I am saying. In the grand scheme of things it is not that much different from you. Jesus was not suggesting that works are meritorious for salvation, but that true faith will not fail to produce the fruit of good works.
All sin is lawlessness
But one who does not produce fruit is not saved....this is my point. Many are purporting that all one has to do is believe in Jesus and nothing else....Jesus says different. If you are not producing fruit...you are thrown into the fire....the branch gets snipped off and is burned up. When Jesus dumps one and says I NEVER KNEW YOU because you produced no fruit.....does that sound like that person is still saved....Not Hardly. This faith alone & OSAS philosophy is a LIE....and Mike is the biggest purporter of it and is misleading many as evidenced by:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
That's right legalist. Once someone believes in Christ for salvation, they are saved even if they turn around and reject Christ after having accepted Him as Savior. And it is amazing. This is something that people such as yourself will never understand.
He's absolutely right...I will never understand this type of thinking because it is false and those who teach it are false....Jesus NEVER taught this. We have a responsibility to live in obedience to God especially after the sacrifice that Jesus made to cleanse us of our sin. Mike has even gone so far as to say that we don't have to "repent" or feel sorry for the sins we've committed, which is another false teaching. The first step to receiving the cleansing of our sin is a sincere repentance and a turning away from our sin. I can't for the life of me understand how Jesus message has become so warped.
Anywho....people will believe what they want to believe (or what their teachers tell them to believe)....I prefer to stick with what Jesus said and if I'm labeled a "Legalist", then so be it because Jesus was one too!!
Fruitless trees are thrown into the fire, and even those branches of the good trees which did not produce fruit are cut off and thrown into the fire.
John 15:6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
Remember that Jesus was talking to believers when he said that, not to unbelievers. He said he is the vine and we are the branches which are desiged to bear fruit, but if there is no fruit, you are cut off and thrown into the fire.
But what does it mean?
1. Professing Christians end up in the fire (lack of salvation, Christians in name only - there are millions of those)
2. Believing, but unfruitful believers end up in the fire aka hell
3. Believing, but unfruitful believers are punished by fire temporarily
Lesson to learn: Don't play with fire
If that doesn KILL FOR GOOD the Faith Alone & OSAS doctrine....I just don't know what will.
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